- It was not just a coincidence, it was drip feeding.
We were taught only to heal with medication.
We were never, it's sick care, it's not healthcare.
We are treating sick people, we want them to be sick.
There's no money, no big bucks in keeping people healthy.
(air whooshing) (upbeat music)
- Hi everybody, this is Klaus from Plant Based News.
I'm with the wonderful Dr. Nitu.
- Hello, thank you. - Welcome very much
to Plant Based News.
- Thank you, thank you, Klaus.
It's really been a very exciting day today already,
and thank you for inviting me to talk to you.
- No problem, so you have been vegan for?
- Several years, well, actually,
I was a lifelong, I was born a vegetarian.
Did try and eat meat a few times to see what it tasted like
and then went vegetarian completely
from 1992 when I was pregnant,
realized that I thought I'd make some mince for my husband,
and washed it, saw the blood running away
and got a real fright, realized what I was doing.
Became vegetarian overnight completely at that stage
but then when my daughter was about 10,
she came home and said she was not going
to be eating meat anymore.
So I thought I'd better find out a little bit more
and to my joy I discovered being vegan.
I'm a bit sad and angry, because as a doctor,
I was never taught nutrition,
never taught the impact that what I was putting into my body
and advising my patients was making a big difference.
So that has really changed the way I look,
where this a win-win situation, when you eat the right way,
when you practice your morals in the right way,
you help not just your health, mental and physical,
but also the planet and all the sentient beings
that share the world with us.
So I think that's really important.
- Wow, so inspirational
and what I find even more inspirational is the fact
you found out about the plant based lifestyle before 2005.
Which is when the China study came out
and Earthlings came out.
So what was the sort of landscape like back then
and before then for information
about the plant based lifestyle?
- So I think my daughters
and I were the only vegans in the village.
And so (laughs) really there was a lot of eye rolling,
a lot of, everybody understood vegetarianism, I'm Indian,
so being vegetarian wasn't an affront to what I was asking.
The moment I said I was vegan, they didn't understand it.
So some people were really genuinely interested to know why
and so I was explaining that I didn't want to be part
of exploiting any animals but most people were resistant,
especially members from my family side,
as well as friends, they found it,
deep down, it disturbed them.
They realized there was an element of truth
of what I was saying, and so it took quite a long time,
even for my husband and now his only regret is
that he didn't turn vegan at the same time as us.
And the social pressures were huge,
the challenges were huge,
I did start having a couple of spoons of dairy
when I was out and I written in my little note,
saying how ashamed I was
and actually there's no need to be ashamed.
It's a journey for people and I want my patients
and everybody to understand
that this is a journey, it takes time.
But educate yourself, now is the time.
Social media is there, there are movies,
"The Game Changers", "Forks over Knives",
"Eating You Alive", "From the Ground Up",
"Running for Good", the amazing Fiona Oakes,
I really feel that this is somebody
who actually emulates everything that it is.
Veganism, it's an ethical philosophy that is good,
not just for the planet, not just good for the animals,
it's also good for our health.
So you know, just love it.
- You mentioned your patients
and you mentioned just then health,
what kind of doctor are you?
- So I've been a doctor for 40 years, I'm a gynecologist,
which means I look after women who are pregnant,
delivering babies, operating on them,
looking after them, during their menopause
in their 80s as well.
So during this time I realized
that what I was doing to people,
I was helping them in their journey
of having a healthy baby, having surgery, lifesaving,
but I wasn't making the change
that I really had been trained to do.
And I then was so upset to realize that the diet
that I'd chosen for ethics,
was actually the best diet that my patients could be on.
And the numbers of changes that I see,
women who haven't had their periods for years,
go on a plant based diet,
and their periods start coming back regularly.
Women who are preparing for the menopause,
actually eating the right foods, because there's so much
of myths about soy and plant foods
and how it'll make you weak.
But inherently everybody knows that eating fruits
and vegetables, beans and grains, and not really,
trying to avoid all the junk food which is there nowadays,
you really will actually experience a lot of health
and the closer one moves to a wholefood plant based way
of eating, so somebody might say,
"Oh my god, you're asking me to turn vegan".
No, all we're asking you to do is think about
what choices you make three times a day,
what you put in your mouth,
when you make those changes, you will soon realize,
just take breakfast, and make it plant based.
Just move your hand from cows milk to the soy milk
or the oat milk, they're both sustainable as well.
Then look at lunch, and then make it a plant based Monday,
and then a plant based Tuesday
and then soon you'll be on your journey.
For others, they need to maybe watch a slaughterhouse video
and actually see what these poor animals,
and I'm a feminist, and I don't think people realize
that feminism and veganism go hand in hand.
You can't really be a true feminist because all the animals
that are being exploited,
are pigs, cows, hens, they're all mothers.
- Especially in the dairy industry.
- Yeah in the dairy industry.
And my daughter, I remember when she about nine or 10,
she said, "Mummy, I can't eat dairy."
I said, "Why not?
"Why can't you just be a vegetarian?"
She said, "Because white equals red".
The white milk becomes a red meat,
it's the same byproduct of the same thing
and that always stuck with me
and I think it's really important to understand
that different people will have different journeys,
it's just a question of working out where you are
and how you want to do it.
But there's plenty of help available,
plenty of resources.
Certainly everybody should be looking
to reduce their impact on other animals
as well as on this planet
and improve their health.
Nothing like living a joyous life,
there's no deprivation here.
- And you've spoken there about sort of veganism
and the ethical component,
how do you find talking about those issues
with your patients, in like a patient setting?
- So the way I do it is because I'm a
lifestyle medicine physician as well,
I think the first thing I want to understand
is a little bit about where they're coming from.
What is their family history?
What work do they do?
What is their job?
What are their daily stresses?
And I do spend some time,
it doesn't take a lot of time once you're quite experienced
and once I've got that, then I work out,
what is their sleep routine?
What is their exercise regime?
What is their stresses?
What sort of risky substances do they take?
And then I ask them about their diet.
And then once I start talking about their diet,
I ask them whether they are willing to open their minds,
because if they've come to see me
because they've got fibroids or endometriosis,
these are all female conditions, menopause,
cancer of the womb, any of these conditions,
they are all, breast cancer,
these are all women who will actually benefit
from going on to a plant based diet.
So they often say, "Oh, Dr. Bajekal,
"you're asking me to go vegan".
No I'm not, veganism is an ethical philosophy.
Yes it would be great if you can be a wholefood,
plant based vegan, or a plant based vegan, yes.
But definitely for your health,
the first step you need to do is make a change
in what you're putting in your mouth.
Because we know, study after study after study
has shown that the closer you move to eating plants,
the healthier you're going to be.
All studies have shown that you tend to be slimmer,
people are worried about putting on weight,
it's the one diet shown in the broad study
that you can actually be slimmer,
and you can keep your weight off for much longer.
It becomes a way of life, it's not a diet.
Diets are destined to fail.
A lifestyle can't fail.
- And what do you say to the sort of ketogenic advocates
and the proponents of the, you know it was paleo before,
and now it's the carnivore diet?
You've got Joe Rogan yesterday for example,
who's a big podcast host,
saying that he's lost lots of weight
on a carnivore diet recently.
What do you sort of say to that?
- I say that you can actually lose weight on cocaine,
you can lose weight on chemotherapy,
do I want to lose weight like that? No.
So all these diets, keto diet, paleo diet,
all shades of the Atkins diet
and you know what Dr. Atkins died of?
He fell down, yeah. - It's heart disease, right?
- Yes heart disease.
So really, we know that all these fad diets
are because people like to hear good things
about their bad habits.
And there's a lot of money to be made with confusion.
If every single day, everybody came on air and said,
eat plants, nobody's going to tune in.
Nobody's going to tune in
to any of these radios or newspapers.
So keep people confused, then the junk industry wins,
the politicians win, the meat industry wins,
the oil industry wins, everybody's a winner.
I have a mortgage to pay, I have children to send
to private school, hospitals have desks to run
and keep patients ill.
There's no incentive for making people better.
So I always say, nobody knows your body better than you do.
Lifestyle medicine is there to work alongside
western medicine, don't just believe your doctor.
Research the science yourself.
Make the changes and use western medicine when you need it,
but try and actually heal yourself in most of the situations
because 80% of what I see, and what most doctors see,
is lifestyle related.
Whether it's heart disease or cancer or diabetes,
or whether it is women's health issues.
So it's not a big deal at all.
- It's really interesting what you're saying
and you mentioned there how the food system's connected
with so many different industries,
and where agriculture's connected
with government and food and hospitals.
Have you ever felt that kind of pressure
from industry in your workplace?
- No, but I do realize that as a medical student,
we all love free things
and we used to get really excited getting a free pen
or a free lunch, but there is nothing called a free lunch.
Because almost all of that has got underwritten
whichever pharmaceutical company it is.
And guess where the pharmaceuticals make
their most money from?
80% of the pharmaceutical industry
makes antibiotics for the animal population.
So it was not just a coincidence,
it was drip feeding, we were taught only
to heal with medication.
It's sick care, it's not healthcare.
We're treating sick people, we want them to be sick,
there's no money, no big bucks in keeping people healthy.
So that's what I want people to do,
is to wake up and realize that actually,
you are in charge of your destiny.
You have to be the one self care, self management
and along with that comes a responsibility,
you've been given this huge privilege
of being on this earth,
part of something that's so magical
and why do you think you have the right
to take it away from any other being?
Nobody has come, no woman has been put on this planet
to serve a man, so it's patriarchy,
it's racism, casteism, sexism and speciesism.
So we need to understand that we all can live in harmony,
at the same time looking after ourselves.
There is no deprivation, this is actually a fun way to live.
- I completely agree and it's interesting what you say
when you were saying they want us to be sick.
A lot of people watching this might say
you sound quite conspiratorial,
do you think the people that sort
of promote pharmaceuticals or meat based diets,
do you think they have a lack of integrity
or are they just misinformed?
- Doctors are not bad people, we're trained to heal people.
But because we're not taught, we don't understand.
We read the same newspapers, the same organizations
that feed us, the public the information feeds us.
So as a result, we go home and we're gonna chomp down
on our chicken or on our steak,
how are you gonna tell somebody,
listen your prostate cancer could be made better
if you cut out that cheese?
Your breast cancer could heal if you ate plants.
You know it's impossible, do you understand?
So I don't think anybody is bad, hospitals are there to help
and of course everybody wants to make money,
nobody's asking for everything to be free,
but what we do have to understand is
that this is not the best way,
you have to now actually bring change.
And maybe the change has to come from outside,
from young people.
I have great hope for young people like you
that will actually change things,
because the hardest generation is our generation.
We've lived quite a long time,
we don't want to make changes,
the changes that people do want to make,
are people often in their late 70s and 80s,
I think and people who are young like you.
So everybody can be convinced, but I think it's the youth
that are going to have to bring this real shift.
But everybody has a responsibility,
you can't just shirk it off.
- What do you think will bring about true change?
Individual change, like with diet or sort of system,
institution government change?
- I think it's going to be system change.
I think individuals do have a responsibility,
because of the feel-good factor.
You feel that you're making a difference, you know?
Come on, I mean what can be better than waking up everyday
and knowing that you're trying to be as kind as possible
to the people around you, to reducing child hunger,
to the animals around you.
But it needs system change.
It needs tech changes,
it needs big organizations to come on board.
And that's why it needs the young brains
to actually fuel this and private investors
if governments don't want to.
Ultimately we are here, we are kind people,
we can actually make that difference.
But individual changes and system changes,
but system changes are probably the most.
- Where can people find out more about your work?
Do you have a website or any social media?
- I'm very approachable,
I am happy to speak to even two people on the road,
I don't let a single dog walker go
when I'm on my dog walks with my two rescue dogs.
I can be found @DrNituBajekal, which is Instagram,
otherwise my website is www.nithubhajikul.com
it's pretty easy and I'm happy to engage with all of you.
- Great I'll link that website
and the respective social media down below.
Thank you so much for you time.
I really, really appreciate it.
- [Dr. Nitu] Thank you.
(air whooshing)