Hello and welcome to Stumped, your intercontinental hit of news, features and debate from the quirky world of cricket.
I'm Alison Mitchell and I have hotfooted it from Edgbaston to Nottingham. After all the chaos and excitement, tension and
drama of the first men's Ashes Test match the women's Test is now getting underway. It's the first part of their multi-format
series in the Women's Ashes and really, really delighted to be here in the commentary box looking out over a wonderfully
sparkling Trent Bridge Cricket Ground with the white bucket seats looking absolutely pristine on this early morning ahead
of the day's play and it's really exciting to have the Men's and the Women's Ashes dovetailing in such a way that we're bouncing
from one match to the other and if it's half as exciting as we saw at Edgbaston then we’re going to be in for a cracking summer
Well, let's hope that game rubs off on the women in that match at Trent Bridge. We need to maintain the rate so to speak
because that was one of the most extraordinary Test matches I’ve ever seen. Jim Maxwell here in London for ABC and the BBC
opposite Lord’s, actually, in the old hotel that's been here for a long time and having a little bit of what do you call R and R in the
wake of some celebrations. As you can imagine every Aussie anywhere on the planet, but particularly here in London is just a
little bit excited having the relief of winning the game and it could easily have been lost, but certainly one of the most
thrilling Test matches we've ever seen. Yes, as some commentators said it was one for the ages.
Without question, and Jim, congratulations and good luck for this one, Alison. We'll see how it goes. England is the place to be
for Test match cricket or cricket at all. I hope the weather holds by the way, Alison. I’m Charu Sharma for Akashvani, sitting in
the middle of the desert in Ajmer in my school, the Mayo College of Ajmer, one of India's premier boarding schools. I’m part of the
board by the way, so I’ve taken a little bit of time out of proceedings for something very important, Stumped. I’ve got a
quarter of an eye out on the ICC World Cup qualifiers as well, and congratulations to Oman for beating Ireland, so we'll see
how that turns out and who joins the top eight for the World Cup to be held later in India. But, of course, the way the Test series
has started the Ashes, just spectacular.
But Jim, goodness. Were you exhausted yesterday? Were you exhausted the day after the match finished because I was
absolutely shattered and yet you called the winning moments and really lived and breathed that dramatic climax?
Well, it was a long evening, I have to say, and the adrenaline was pumping so much, you weren't even thinking about it
to get wound up in that last hour or two particularly that partnership of Cummins and Lyon who could have thought
that they would add those runs. They're the great all-rounders in Australian cricket at the moment they take all the wickets and
they make the runs. Look, it could have easily gone the other way. You've got to take your chances and that's where, to me,
England missed out. Any analysis you put on that game it could have gone either way. The fact that it has gone to Australia
that's huge. I was right in front of the bank of Australian supporters who were
part of a big tour group many of them, all clad in the same green and gold outfits and they had had so much stick over the course of those
of those five days from the Hollies Stand right next to them with chants and singing directed at them all match because England
were in front for most of the game it always felt like it was Australia who were sort of on the back foot and yet suddenly
'Waltzing Matilda’ was bursting out, they had the upper hand, they could sense it was coming and the jubilation when that
ball went over the line for the four runs and Pat Cummins threw the bat away and ripped off the helmet and went charging round
the ground it was quite something to behold. Charu, where were you for the climax? Were you able to get fully involved in the
match from wherever you were? Well, it’s a five day match, right? So, I got involved in several
stages, but not right at the very end, unfortunately it was really late and I was elsewhere and I couldn't quite get to see
in the final moments. I knew what was going on because, as we all possibly are, I’m part of a few groups and every three minutes,
there were 40 messages about ‘what’s likely to happen’, ‘who is winning here?; and people swung crazily from one end to the
other. Of course it was, all results were possible until the very end, but it was quite remarkable how Australia went over the line
and you’ve got to say Pat Cummins we've talked about that on Stumped earlier about his captaincy, because he is obviously
a fast bowler or he would like to consider himself an all-rounder particularly after this performance, but he has pulled out some
extraordinary wins with the bat as well. So, congratulations Australia and it was a match that England should have won.
In the end, it was 72 runs needed with seven wickets down when Usman Khawaja was out and goodness Jim, if you and I from
being there and being involved in the commentary of it were exhausted and drained by the end of it, just what must it have
been like for the players. I did get a chance to speak to Usman Khawaja after the match because it looked like he was going
to take Australia all the way to the finish. It took Ben Stokes, the captain, bringing himself onto bowl to break up that stand and
dismiss Khawaja. So only three wickets in hand, 72 left to win and I asked Khawaja, whether the way this all panned out
for him meant it was the greatest test he's ever played in?
I think it is, yeah. I don't think I've ever felt the way I'm feeling right now after a Test match. It was just so many emotions that
went into it and to be honest the last 45 minutes I thought we probably lost that Test match. Seven wickets down, we still
needed 70 runs to get, I know how hard it was to score runs out there, strong at best. That ball got so soft, I was like 70 runs
still feels a long way away and the way Patty played at the end there with Lyono and Alex Carey got a few quick runs there too.
I mean it’s just the sheer emotions that going to five days in this Test match probably make it the most special I have played in.
Did you worry after you were dismissed that there were too many runs left to get?
Yeah, definitely. My plan was to try to get towards that last hour. I thought if I get to that last hour I was going to push the
accelerator, but I wanted to make sure we had enough wickets in the bank to do that. I didn’t want to go too hard too
early so there's plenty of times out there that I just wanted to next gear, I wanted to go next gear and play more shots.
I kept looking at the scoreboard and I thought we need to take this as deep as we can and I need to stay here. So it's
unfortunate when I got out because I missed out on some of the fun stuff, but I'm glad the other guys got it down.
Was it fun watching in the dressing room when you can no longer do anything about it?
That is horrible. Did you move? Were there superstitions?
I don’t know if it’s superstition. There is so much nervous energy, just energy in general floating right up there in the viewing box.
Everyone was this, that and I try not to get too excited or too, I just want to stay even so I just went into the changing rooms,
I was watching it on TV. The worst part was there was a three second delay on the TV so I had to listen to what was going on
there and I was like please don't. No crowd noise, no crowd noise, I did that for the last 45 minutes. I didn’t want to move
because I was kind of like I don't want to get too excited here in case we do lose there's still a long way away but when we did
win, unbelievable. I didn’t even see the last ball, I don’t even know how we won because all I heard was the boys cheering
and the delay still hadn’t come up and I just ran outside so it’s really cool.
He was magnificent, wasn't he? The hundred in the first innings. We saw the passion come out of him because he'd never scored
a hundred in a Test in England before, but were you a little bit worried about the manner in which he was scoring in that
second innings because there just seemed to be, he said there he had a plan, but you were watching just going, goodness,
if he's not careful Australia at one point seemed to be going nowhere with the run rate.
The moment actually Travis Head got out to Moeen Ali, just banging for a couple of fours, I thought we might be in a
bit of strife here because you've got to keep the momentum going and I know they were patient and they had a lot of overs
left and they could afford to be watchful and as Usman pointed out not only was it a soft ball but a pretty sluggish pitch, very
turgid, and he played the same way throughout, that’s his game. He just needed to have someone moving it along and Alex Carey
certainly tried to do that before Cummins’ extraordinary burst, and perhaps tactically England erred in not taking the new ball a
a little bit sooner. They gave Root that extra over and, yes, he did brilliantly to get rid of Carey with that superb caught and bowled.
But that extra over that was a trigger point 14 off it, two sixes and all of a sudden Australia picked up momentum, and
it was interesting to hear from Pat Cummins when asked after the game was there a point where you thought you might just
play for a draw. He said ‘no, I never even thought of playing for a draw’. Yes, there were plenty of overs left. I think Usman Khawaja
had it right, even though there was a bit of a struggle at times to keep turning the strike over with the Brumbella fields and the rest
of it. Very hard to score against accurate bowling and England's pace bowling on the last day was outstanding, really, until the
final assault when, of course, you take the new ball and it's a real risk reward when you do that. And they didn't get the nicks
and Nathan Lyon had a couple of heaves and one went spectacularly to the boundary, but it was breath-taking because
the previous day when the ball was around the off stump from Broad it was nicked off by Labuschagne and Smith, but he
couldn't do it against the lesser players.
Charu, what of the tactics because you look across the whole match? There were so many jaw dropping moments
because of the way Ben Stokes goes about things the captaincy, the declaration, all the signs from England are that this is going
to continue and if anything they will simply go harder at Australia now for the next test.
Of course they will and they need to that's their style, their current style. And, yes, you can talk about captaincy and give
Stokes all the responsibility of the decisions he took, but surely, and that's my favourite topic right here on Stumped or
elsewhere, it's a think tank decision and I'm sure Stokes is not going and doing these things completely on his own. You
mentioned so many aspects and in a five day match, of course, there are almost always are. And there were massive talking
points around the world. For instance, the declaration to begin with and the psychology of a hundred in Test match cricket.
Why can't a fabulous 95 be given as much credit as 105 and if you’re 393 or whatever and you’re not 403 it’s still good enough,
isn't it? My mind goes back to the Test with Pakistan a long time back where Rahul Dravid quite famously or should I say
infamously declared when Sachin [Tendulkar] was on one ninety and something and you thought why couldn't you just hang on
to get two hundred and there was so much talk about that. But people have plans and I'm not you know Rahul doesn't need to
defend me nor does Stokes, but the plan then was to make sure that we have that one last hour to try and get some early wickets
because the people in the field are kind of tired a bit and you put them in for in England's case 20 minutes or 25 and you get a top
wicket or two you're in business, so I understand the tactics there. When they work, people say, ‘wow, terrific captaincy’
but when they don’t of course it comes crashing back on you saying, ‘why did you have to do that?’. It’s one of those things
and I'm sure England, Stokes and the rest of the team are, well, they have thicker skin than that. Whatever decisions they took,
they took because they felt they are likely to work and when they don’t, they don’t. Even the old ball, there's going to be so much
talk about it, but it could easily have gone the other way and people would have said, ‘wow, magic stroke. Wow, imagine not
taking the new ball because the older one was soft as Usman said’. But Khawaja too admitted that he is not the sort of person
who gets carried away and had he stayed there it would have been known as the Khawaja Test.
So I am here at Trent Bridge where the scene is all set for the 25th edition of the biggest rivalry in women's cricket with
England and Australia taking on each other in their multi-format Ashes series and it all starts in Nottingham with a one off five
day match for the first time. England are bidding to reclaim the Ashes for the first time in almost a decade. Now I've been
catching up with the recently retired World Cup and Ashes winner, Katherine Sciver-Brunt, England's fiery fast bowler.
I began by asking her just what the Ashes means to the cricketers of England and Australia.
We regard it as the pinnacle of the sport for us. We find it way more enthralling and nerve-wracking and all of the above than a
World Cup that’s just how I've always seen it. It always seems like a real battle, a personal battle and one that I like to get
stuck into more than any other tournament. I can never tell you the exact answer why that is, but I just know it in my heart and
that tends to come out in streams of passion bursting spells from nowhere where you just manage to scrape the barrel
for some energy pretty much like the way Broady did the other day.
Where do you think the women's game is going from here Katherine because you've obviously seen the transition, you’ve
been part of it, you’ve inspired a new generation of 20 something fast bowler even. We've now got major Test grounds
hosting women's internationals in this country, 80 professional domestic cricketers in England and Wales, there’s The Hundred,
the WBBL, the WPL now around the world which of course Nat has been a big part of. hat's next? Where do you see it going?
What does the game need?
It's pretty much just risen to the top, hasn't it in the last year? I'm not sure how far it can go from here because it feels pretty like
it's just leapfrogged. I think after the IPL everybody just went, whoa, like what just happened, that was unreal. That is a
moment that three weeks there was the moment we've waited for for two decades. That's where we envisioned it from the very
first ball I watched in the IPL, men’s IPL, God knows how long ago, it feels like 12 years, maybe.
2008.
We’d been like one more year, surely they'll have some money into it. They'll make a Women's franchise. One more year.
And here we are like it has been a long time, but it's here. I don't see it getting any bigger than this. What it needs to do
now is maintain itself and not teeter off. That's the thing you worry about is first IPL, exciting, let's get into it, but let's not
follow it in the long term so what I wish for is that these girls who have received these 80 contracts who are now receiving
a good pay can foresee a career in it and don't have to double up the workload to earn a living, but they stay there and they
mature because this is not a next year process, this is a five, 10 year process.
Is it going to challenge international cricket in anyway? The primacy of international cricket.
Yeah, that’s the worry, isn’t it, that people will disappear and I played for England because I'm extremely passionate.
I wanted to represent my country. I wanted to be proud and for people to be proud of me and I did that because I love doing it
and I didn't receive money for that and neither did anyone else. So you were basically there having fun with your mates and
making the country proud. of you and that was everything and that is not the case now. This world we live in now it's a worry.
You don't know where your next pay cheque coming from some people. Some people still have their job, but their job is no longer
good enough to support them. So it's like there's all these added layers to life and living and we need to keep up with that if you
want to keep people there. So franchise cricket is so luring. You know Nat’s 30 now and her body's going to get more
bruised and battered and she's going think is international cricket worth it when I can play half the year for twice as much
money elsewhere. And that these are the realities that you've got to face because these people have got to think I’ve got a short
career I've got the rest of my life to live I need to make the most out of what I've got while I've still got it and I should know that
with the two back surgeries that I had so, yeah, there's all sorts of decisions you have got to make and there’s always that feeling
of not taking yourself away from representing your country because that is why we all started in the first place and I don't
want that to go away.
Thanks for your time on Stumped and we’ll see you throughout the Ashes because we'll be hearing your commentary and being
alongside you as well. Enjoy the rest of the summer.
I was looking the other day at a photograph of Tower Bridge in London which had both England and men's captains Ben Stokes
projected onto one tower and Heather Knight on to the other with a huge banner across the middle of Tower Bridge. We’ve
seen stunts like that being pulled off on the Sydney Opera House projections, but I've never ever seen cricket projected onto
London landmarks like this and the fact that it's the men's and women's being promoted together on an equal footing that's
a huge stride forward and that is why we will have good crowds across this Women's Ashes series as well as the raucous crowds
that we have experienced across the men’s so far. That's all we've got time for on this week's Stumped, so my thanks to
Jim Maxwell and to Charu Sharma and all of you. Make sure you join us again for next week until then. Bye. Bye.