Sarah: The word "abstinence" is thrown around a lot especially in our culture but what does
that actually mean?
Today we're gonna find out as I torture my friends with an exercise that I learned about
while I was taking the Sexuality Education Certification Series at the Planned Parenthood
League of Massachusetts in December.
Jack: Hi, I'm Jack.
Jordan: I'm Jordan from Rum and Board.
(Girl) Jordan: I'm also Jordan, affectionately referred to as "Girl Jordan"
Robin: Hi, I'm Robin.
Meryl: I'm Meryl.
I'm also part of the Rum and Board team which is a board gaming YouTube Channel.
Sarah: Okay, I want you guys to define the word "abstinence" as in sexual abstinence,
not abstaining from alcohol or something else.
(Not Girl) Jordan: We have to make the best definition.
We have to beat the other team's definition.
Jack: Yes we do.
(Girl) Jordan: Okay, so abstinence is...
Meryl: I feel like I've usually like heard it used in the context of like vaginal sex
specifically.
Like I feel like people are like--I've known people who are like, "I'm abstinent until
marriage," but they're like having other kinds of what I would consider sex.
So I don't know if I should go with the definition I think is popular or the definition that
I would hold which is like, if you're having sex you're having sex, and therefore not abstinent.
Robin: Yeah.
Jack: I think it's like refraining from sexual activity.
Really more of a like waiting and at some point you'll stop being abstinent.
It's most commonly sex.
(Girl) Jordan: There's definitely--
(Not Girl) Jordan: Choosing to?
(Girl) Jordan: Yeah, there's a choice component.
Jack: Yeah.
Robin: So when I think of Abstinence-Only Education I think of the idea of no sex whatsoever.
Meryl: Of any kind.
Robin: Any kind.
Even masturbation.
Meryl: Oh.
Robin: So the idea of no sex--sexual interaction with yourself or others is how I think of
it when it's Abstinence-Only Education.
Meryl: Oooh.
(Girl) Jordan: Abstaining from sexual activity for some amount of time--
Jack: Choosing--choosing to refrain from sexual activity.
(Not Girl) Jordan: What is sexual activity?
Jack: Particularly sex.
(Girl) Jordan: It can be anything from holding hands up until having sex.
(Not Girl) Jordan: So it depends--
Jack: But I think particularly sex.
(Not Girl) Jordan: That's up to, that's up to individual interpretation what the sexual
activity is.
Jack: But--But I think--
Sarah: Ten seconds left.
Jack: I would say refrain--refraining from--
(Not Girl) Jordan: And probably smaller societal subgroups define it also.
Jack: Refraining from sexual activity by choice, particularly sex is like in common usage.
(Girl) Jordan: I don't know.
I would say that it's like--
(Not Girl) Jordan: Where sexual activity is determined by each social subgroup.
Jack: Have you ever like heard of someone--
(Girl) Jordan: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Robin: Well if we're going to condense and like put it together so abstinence would be
the--umm not ending but not engaging in some amount of sexual conduct with either yourself
or others.
Meryl: I feel like I don't--I don't know if I get the "yourself" part.
Robin: Okay, then just--
Meryl: With others.
I feel like abstinence-only education just like doesn't acknowledge masturbation but--
Robin: I mean but it doesn't encourage it either.
Meryl: That's true.
As like a preventative.
Robin: Yeah.
It's just like "No sexuality's bad, don't do any of the things, no pleasure for you!"
That's how I feel.
Meryl: Yeah I'm gonna add that.
No pleasure for you.
Jack: Refraining from sexual activity for a period of time by choice where sexual activity
is determined by culture.
Meryl: Not engaging in sexual conduct with others.
No pleasure for you!
Sarah: So just one last time can you umm one at a time read your definition again?
So 3XJ can you read your definition.
(Girl) Jordan: Definition reader.
Jack: Refraining from sexual activity for a period of time by choice where sexual activity
is determined by culture.
Robin: Not engaging in sexual conduct with others.
No pleasure for you!
Sarah: Okay.
Now I want you teams to switch.
So you stand by that one, and you guys stand by this one.
Meryl: Okay.
Sarah: So now I'm going to provide you with some examples of sexual activities and I want
you to decide whether other--the group's--the definition in front of you, whether by that
definition, that behavior would be allowable or not allowable.
But yeah, first we have "penis to vagina sex".
Whoops!
(Girl) Jordan: Oh man.
Okay.
Jack: This would not be allowed by their definition.
(Girl) Jordan: Definitely not.
Jack: That would be too much pleasure.
Hopefully.
Meryl: I mean so this is not specific by design but I feel like if one kind of sex was like
not allowed by--
Robin: Or det--is determined by culture as "sexual activity"
Meryl: Yeah it'd be this one, so we're going to not allow it.
Sarah: Okay, the next activity is "sharing an ice cream sundae"
Jack: Allowed.
(Not Girl) Jordan: No pleasure.
(Girl) Jordan: I think I'm gonna do this.
Jack: Yes.
Meryl: Allowable, I would say.
Robin: I would agree.
Meryl: Although
Robin: The lawyer in me is saying that this is an ambiguous term.
Meryl: I got mono doing this in high school, so.
(Girl) Jordan: Drama.
Sarah: Alright, next one up is "masturbation"
Jack: This would be allowed.
(Not Girl) Jordan: That's allowed.
Robin: What?
Meryl: Don't confuse the other team!
(Girl) Jordan: Well yeah 'cause it says, "with others, no pleasure for you" with others.
Jack: Yeah.
(Not Girl) Jordan: Yeah I think "others" is that line.
Meryl: That's true, that's my bad.
Meryl: I feel like in the widest interpretation of this, this is not allowed.
Robin: Yeah.
Meryl: It's pretty decidedly sexual.
Sarah: Next we have "massaging a partner's back"
Jack: Well I'd go with probably allowed.
(Not Girl) Jordan: Wait this is--what is a partner?
(Girl) Jordan: Like, not like--
Jack: Like you're--
(Not Girl) Jordan: Like you could totally do like--
Jack: Life partner.
(Not Girl) Jordan: Like guy-guy or girl-girl in most cultures would be totally allowed
by this definition.
Jack: Yeah.
But I think--I don't think massages--back massages especially count as sexual conduct
regardless so I think that this would be allowed.
(Girl) Jordan: No I was going to say that this--it depends on like 'cause like massaging
a partner is like someone that you're like--
(Not Girl) Jordan: A shirt on or shirt off is probably different.
(Girl) Jordan: Yeah and also like--
Jack: But it's a back if this was like general massaging.
(Girl) Jordan: But still I mean just like touching in that kind of intimate way.
I would say "no".
Jack: I would say "yes" but I'm willing to--
(Not Girl) Jordan: I would say that's allowable.
Jack: Yeah I think--I think it's allowable.
(Girl) Jordan: I'll put it then.
Meryl: I feel like because it specifies that it's a partner it seems more sexual than just
like massaging someone's back randomly.
Robin: Okay, well then I guess sexual activity could be determined as massage because of
the term "partner" so do we want to be extreme?
Meryl: Yes.
Robin: Okay we're gonna be extreme.
Meryl: Not allowed.
Sarah: Okay, we're putting up some other definitions that we found from some other sources so I
want you to umm--for the activities that we already gave you, now fill in these two definitions
together.
(Girl) Jordan: Okay, so let's start with "penis to vagina sex".
Wikipedia definition.
Jack: "Sexual abstinence is the practice of refraining from some or all aspects of sexual
activity for medical, psychological, legal, social, financial, philosophical, moral, or
religious reasons."
Meryl: Some or all aspects of sexual activity.
(Not Girl) Jordan: Maybe allowed.
You could refrain from only some aspects.
(Girl) Jordan: When you think of abstinence you think of it like this is abstinence.
(Not Girl) Jordan: I feel like in--I feel like in this definition you could refrain
from like kinky sex.
Would be like a valid interpretation.
Jack: But if like you take it that far then we're just gonna say anything is allowed.
(Girl) Jordan: For allowable would you be like, "I have penis to vagina sex but I abstain
from masturbating" or something.
You know what I'm saying?
Jack: Oral sex.
I feel like there are some--you know there are some--
Meryl: I can't imagine someone saying--
Jack: There are some religious institutions where like--
(Girl) Jordan: Oh yeah, sex for procreation.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Jack: This is allowed but like oral sex and anal sex are not.
Like Catholic doctrine.
Meryl: Ooh that's true.
Robin: Because it's not for procreation, yup.
Meryl: 'Cause you're wasting your sperms?
Jack: Yeah.
(Girl) Jordan: 'Cause you don't have that many of them, I guess.
(Not Girl) Jordan: They're so precious.
Meryl: Yeah, so precious.
Jack: But I think in general this would not be allowed, like if we're--
Robin: Yeah, but I think with this definition the way it's phrased because it says some
or all it means like this could be allowable while you're still not doing certain aspects
of it.
(Girl) Jordan: Yeah.
Are we good?
Jack: So you think it should be allowed?
Oh but it can be.
Robin: I don't think it should be allowed I think that it's allowable by this specific
definition.
Not by abstinent--yeah.
Meryl: Robin's basically a lawyer, so I agree with her.
Jack: "Abstinence is voluntarily choosing to not engage in certain sexual behaviors,
including any sexual behaviors that can result in pregnancy or STIs including HIV."
Jack: So I think for this one it's not allowed because, from the way I parse the sentence,
any sexual behavior is a thing you're not inclu--like
Meryl: Yeah like spec--
Jack: It's choosing not to engage in any sexual behavior that could result in pregnancy or
STIs.
(Not Girl) Jordan: What if you have really good protection?
Meryl: Yeah but Planned Parenthood would tell you that there's no such thing as being 100%
protected from pregnancy unless you just totally don't have a uterus.
Robin: True.
Meryl: Yes.
Jack: Ready for the next one?
"Sharing an ice cream sundae"
Meryl: "Sharing an ice cream sundae"
Jack: I would say that this is allowed by this definition.
(Girl) Jordan: Yeah.
(Not Girl) Jordan: I would agree.
(Girl) Jordan: I mean we literally allowed penis to vagina sex, so feel like--
Jack: That's right.
Feel like there's some ordering in there.
Meryl: Sharing an ice cream sundae Planned Parenthood.
(Girl) Jordan: Can you get STIs from sharing an ice cream sundae?
Robin: You said got mono but that's not--
(Girl) Jordan: You can't--but that's not an STI.
(Not Girl) Jordan: If you both have bloody gums I think it's possible.
Jack: But unlikely, and--
Meryl: Unlikely.
(Girl) Jordan: I feel like if both of you are bleeding--
(Not Girl) Jordan: Mint chocolate chip might be able to mess up your mouth.
Jack: Mint chocolate chip?
(Not Girl) Jordan: It's pokey.
Meryl: Both your gums are bleeding into your sundae--
(Girl) Jordan: Why would you--
Robin: You're making this very hard.
(Girl) Jordan: Why would you ever share a sundae with someone who's bleeding from their
mouth?
Meryl: Maybe you're into that.
(Girl) Jordan: Like unless you're eating like raspberry sherbet or something and you like
don't notice.
(Not Girl) Jordan: That would be terrible.
Meryl: You might be into that.
Robin: I think this is allowable.
Jack: I think this is gonna be allowed.
Meryl: Yeah okay I think this is too.
(Not Girl) Jordan: Masturbation.
Alright let's go back over here.
Jack: Well I think if we apply the "penis to vagina rule" then we allowed that.
I assume that like you could refrain from it but it could also be allowed.
But I think we decided we're gonna not let it--
Meryl: Wow.
Wikipedia is so generous.
Let's them just have everything.
(Girl) Jordan: In case you're defining how you're going to be abstinent based on--
Meryl: By Wikipedia.
Robin: Well that's good because then you get to pick and choose.
Jack: Wikipedia is the source of truth.
Meryl: Now--now just anyone is gonna come on the internet and Google like "abstinence"
and then start telling people they're abstinent because they do all of these things that we
said is allowable.
That's not good.
(Girl) Jordan: We're tearing into the fabric or society, this is bad.
Meryl: We are.
And I wouldn't care but--
Jack: You need to use protection.
(Girl) Jordan: You care.
Meryl: I care about people's like safety.
If you have different working definitions of "abstinence" that's a problem.
(Girl) Jordan: Maybe that's why we're talking about it.
Meryl: That's probably why we're talking about it.
(Girl) Jordan: Okay, masturbation round two.
(Not Girl) Jordan: Masturbation cannot result in pregnancy unless there's a horrible accident.
Meryl: I would say allowable by this definition.
Jack: Yeah.
Robin: Yeah.
(Not Girl) Jordan: I agree.
(Girl) Jordan: I feel like there should have been a third category that's like "depending
on how you think about it"
Jack: That we could put everything in?
Meryl: That would have been everything.
Sarah: Okay so we have a bunch more words here.
It can go more quickly.
Robin: I just wanna change it now.
Meryl: You wanna change it?
(Not Girl) Jordan: I think the key difference between these two is this is like you choosing
what you wanna refrain from and this is society choosing--
Jack: By choice.
(Not Girl) Jordan: This is society choosing what you're refraining from even though you're
choosing to refrain from those set of activities.
Robin: This is "determined by culture".
Sarah: So for all of these definitions, do these T-charts look the same?
All: No.
Sarah: What are some really big differences that you--between the different definitions
that you noticed.
Robin: This one's really broad.
Sarah: What about some of the others?
(Girl) Jordan: Well I thought that was interesting because like we specified "by culture" and
some of these are like more your personal choice so that's a whole like section of the
abstinence discussion is like who's making the decision about who's abstinent and when.
Sarah: What are some important parts of the definitions that varied between definitions?
Robin: The idea of choice was interesting, the different terms that were used so "refraining"
versus "voluntarily choosing" and then the term "not engage" I guess versus "refrain".
And then the period of time.
Some specify that it's like for a certain amount of time and some don't specify any
amount of time at all.
Meryl: This one feels like you could like become abstinent again after like having sex
or doing whatever and some of the other ones feel like they're like a thing that you do
for some period of time and then maybe that changes at some point but maybe it's not specific.
Sarah: Alright, before this exercise if someone had told you that they were abstinent what--would
you have known what that meant?
Robin: I would have asked more questions.
(Girl) Jordan: Yeah.
Jack: I would've--I would've assumed that what they meant is that they're not engaging
in sex probably until marriage.
Some people that I imagine would say is to me are--would be straight, religious people
is the most common.
Robin: So particularly penetrative.
Meryl: Yeah.
Jack: So penetrative.
(Not Girl) Jordan: I think it might--a lot of people who would say that to you, like,
"I'm abstinent" might think it was rude if you had a follow-up question of asking what
they meant by that.
Jack: Yeah.
Robin: That's true.
Sarah: So if a partner told you--or a partner or someone you were interested in told you
that they wanted to be abstinent would you know what was and was not okay?
Meryl: Oh.
Robin: No.
Jack: Definitely ask.
(Girl) Jordan: You would clarify.
Robin: Communication.
Meryl: Definitely if it's someone that you are engaging with physically then I would
want more details on that.
I mean I feel like I want those details in general with partners but like if they're
trying to like draw a hard line by saying "I'm abstinent" then I would be like, "Okay
like what can we do?"
Robin: Yeah.
I feel like when someone just says the word "abstinent" I would think okay some things
are off bounds like some things we are not doing.
So that it would just be an awareness that some things are not okay which doesn't necessarily
tell me anything about what is okay.
Jack: But I would--yeah--but like as a straight man if my partner was like, "I'm abstinent"
I would assume that they meant at least no sex in the like penis-vagina sex probably
maybe other types.
I wouldn't assume that they're like, "I'm abstinent" under our version of Wikipedia
which means possibly anything is allowed.
Sarah: Was there anything else that you noticed while you were doing this exercise that you
didn't get a chance to talk about?
(Girl) Jordan: Moral of the story is if somebody says they're abstinent communicate with them
'cause there's so many different things that could be happenin'.
Meryl: They could mean Wikipedia abstinent which is you do what you want.
All: Bye!
Meryl: Thanks for watching.
Bye: Happy consenting!
(Not Girl) Jordan: Don't abstain from Sarah's we--channel.