Well we believe in a gospel that is
Huge enough to embrace all of life
That there's literally no human difficulty that isn't addressed and embraced by the gospel, and so I want to talk about
a couple struggles that
That may seem like
Could these be outside that circle
people struggle with depression and anxiety and
Maybe let's talk about
What you think is the most help helpful kinds of things?
That the church can can do in ministry to people are struggling with depression and anxiety yeah
There's a lot of things let me just say too as a starting point I the first one is to recognize that
There's a way where those experiences make a lot of sense in a fallen world the in one way you could say the miracle is
everyone is done in a continual panic attack and completely despairing because
When you're without God and without hope you ought to be anxious and you ought to be
Despairing I think as Christian people. We're not immune to any of the
the pain and the loss and the heartache and the uncertainty of living in a fallen world and
to be able to normalize it so it's not just a pathological condition, but
There's a way where anxiety and depression are very human experiences, and that's very freeing and then the second thing is
I
May not experience
Anxiety or depression to the same extent that you do if we're having a conversation
but we're more alike than different, and if I'm honest just myself I
If there's no temptation has overtaken
Any person that's not common to all at some level. I ought to be able to identify with you and have a
fundamental care a sympathetic care and understanding for a
Human problem that just creates compassion and care and the confidence that we can have a conversation that is constructive
Yeah, you know I was as you were talking. I was thinking that
Paul in Romans 8 talks about that we live in a world that's groaning waiting for redemption
And we too groan
You could argue that the default language of every human being is groaning
If we're honest yeah from and that's just playing pretend and spending an image whether that's a situational relational or a physical condition
So we should not be surprised that
People are there
Maybe what you're saying is that?
Effective
Ministry to people who struggle clearly struggle with fear and anxiety
or on the depressive
continuing of human beings
May be the the key to ministering to them is humility
that that I
Confess the ability you're a human being I'm a human being
We struggle yeah, that's okay, and we have we have points of contact we can find. I was thinking also that
of just the importance of
patience
just this
Sort of desire for you to get your act together so my life is unencumbered by your struggle
versus
We will struggle and we will continue to struggle till we're on the other side and then in in the midst of that
not only is
Is does God meet us inner struggle he's sovereign over our struggle. I mean some of those experiences
become the richest moments of
Of grace that we have never gotten to my understanding of who Jesus is had I not gone through this experience
That's right, and you're not saying
It's a good thing to be depressed or a good thing to be anxious
But you go through it you find grace, and it's a door to deeper faith a door to greater compassion for other people who struggle
Maybe God's toolbox is bigger than we think it is
That he can use things that we would be terrified of to produce
Rich and beautiful things in us
but something else that I want to pick up on what you said about patience because I think
So often a place the church can fall short, we want some kind of answer that works quick
we want the quick fix the Pat answer, and then it's done and
God is patient be cut because love is patient and
there's a reason love is patient is first on the list and it's because deep problems don't have quick solutions I
was also thinking about
The possibility of having the wrong goal that my goal is to get you undepressed or unanxious
versus a goal of being I want you to have hope in God, and I want hope and God to be the
Motivating force in your life
You you may be on
this
Continuum maybe your personality may be the result of your experience
Does that make sense I'm not trying to fix you as much as I want to root you in
The depth of God's mercy yeah
And I think when I think how the church could misstep is I start to be you as a problem to fix
They're not a person who
For whom the gospel the Psalms say in particular actually give all these strategies for sanity of how to process
The things that trouble you and they show us who to go to
How to anchor ourselves and God not as though even that's going to be a panacea that makes me just serene calm cool and collected
There's actually a strategy for how to be troubled in the right way hmm
Talk more about that
One of my favorite Psalms is 25 and it starts out Dave is all upset about what's happening to him
And he has a pause and he realizes well
I've got a problem because I'm a sinner too
And I can't just pray for deliverance from all the things that upset me and discourage me and make me anxious and distressed
And he finds God's mercy for himself, and then he's able to really very candidly bring to God his troubles the things that
I think we could honestly say they they make him anxious. He uses words like distress and anguish and trouble and
There's this dance where
but we never get out of a situation where we face things that will distress us the last enemy is yet to come and
This is no accident pilgrims progress that the last enemy that crossing that final river
prova provokes one more crisis of anxiety in a Christians life in that parable
And so you would you would say if you're
Near someone who is just seems
captured by anxiety
or depression
You would say
Start here
What would you say I?
Might think this wouldn't say it, but I would what I think is we're in this together. Yeah
You're not diagnosis. I'm not gonna objectify you in that way. We're in this together. This is a human dilemma and
Let's start by naming what troubles you and then let's think through how?
What is true about God you know Philippians 4:6 is probably the classic don't be anxious for nothing text
And people often miss verse 5 which says
The Lord is near
Don't be anxious about anything it actually changes. It. It's not just a moral exhortation to not feel bad
the Lord is near and that
Is implications and you can talk to them?
with intercession prayer
Thanksgiving and he promises to hear us and bring peace and but it's not it's not just an exhortation
It's not just a strategy it all hinges on
our
Awakening to the fact that we aren't alone and anxiety depression are very lonely experiences if we aren't alone it changes the experience
and there's a degree to which and
In a very deeply personal way they can be God forgetful experienced
And so that's what I want the person to remember
That God is near. He is present
His grace reaches
To the depth of those of those struggles rather than if you do this this and this you can become unanxious yeah
Yeah, as though. There's a Christian version of a drug that just yeah makes the bad feeling go away. Yeah, and that that
view of sanctification just isn't in the New Testament, I mean the New Testament predicts we will have trouble and
and we aren't it's part of the humanizing of it because
God didn't make us stones so when we when distressing things happened to us
We feel distress when frightening things happen. We feel fearful when things are out of our control we feel anxious
I think's seem hopeless they may be hopeless in a certain my health may be hopeless
So I'm going to struggle, but there's a God that can meet me exactly at that place of struggle amen