Ah, the Honda Civic Type-R, the yobbish one.
Can you believe they just made a new one? I didn't think the old one was very old.
But now, there's more power, more sophisticated rear suspension
and even more offensive styling.
What I want to know is if this signals the return of the Honda we all loved and lost.
So, I thought we'd take a trip down memory lane, at 8,000 rpm
The 2001 Civic Type-R is like a little racing car.
Independent suspension both ends
and 1998 twin cam normally aspirated four-cylinder motor,
with 200 horsepower and a 1270 kilogram kerb weight.
It was designed to be thrashed and boy, were they thrashed.
The big change for the 2017 Type-R you can't even see,
it's the rear suspension.
It's now fully independent like it always should have been on the previous model.
It now has 320 horsepower and 295 foot-pounds of torque,
which is way down on an Audi RS3,
but then a Honda weighs just 1380 kg because the interior is made of eggshells
and it's only two-wheel drive.
First up, the old car.
So, cast your mind back to 2001, 16 years ago.
What was going on? Well, Big Brother wasn't rubbish
and Honda had just released the 2.3 Civic with a Type-R version,
which frankly rewrote the hot hatch book.
Here was a car with 200 horsepower
for an engine that revved at 8,000 rpm or thereabouts.
Only had 200 horsepower but 142 foot-pound of torque
and you had to wring it by the neck to make it deliver.
But when it did you had one of the best gearboxes of any production car.
I'm in one now and I tell you what,
modern hot hatches can learn a lot from this thing.
To start with it feels like a hatchback to me.
It's small, vaguely disposable, the plastics are hard,
It feels cheap, it feels like the money has being spent on the suspension,
the engine and the gearbox.
This thing is joyous.
It still feels very quick. It still feels very lively.
Small, compact and when you get it above 6,000 rpm
into the VTEC... Wow. Wow!
And it's just so immediate.
I'm sitting too high, the dashboard is complete crud.
I mean, it is exactly what my generation thought hot hatchbacks should be.
What's quite important for me as well is that this car was affordable.
It was a stretch but if you were 23, 24, you were a graduate, borrowed some money,
you could afford to buy this.
I'm not entirely sure you could buy the new car at whatever it is,
35 grand, when specced.
But this thing, it just reminds you of the company Honda used to be.
On the one hand, it's great to remember the heyday of Honda engineering.
I mean, this is a car that had effectively a racing engine in it,
with a race transmission, fully independent rear suspension
and you could just buy it instead of a Golf GTI.
But it was so much more specialised, so much better to drive.
But then, of course, they went down a different route.
They took away the independent rear end and they gave it a beam.
They took the mickey. The replacement to this car was nothing like as good.
This one is spectacularly good.
In fact, it's done 43,000 miles this example, it feels fresh as you like.
The steering is good. The throttle response is exceptional.
It's not too fast. It's very skittish, I have to say.
And this is where I have to probably eat some humble pie,
I'm not entirely certain I noticed it's got an independent rear end,
because the back is so skippy and lively.
It might as well be a beam.
Maybe this one needs a bit of tuning, and some new bushes and new dampers.
But I'm quite surprised at how lively the back end feels.
But the whole thing is immediate.
Little things like, look at the gap
between the gear lever and the steering wheel. Tiny.
You just always felt that you were ready to grab another gear.
Because in this thing you row it like crazy.
And it doesn't actually go that fast.
Well, against contemporary hot hatchbacks it's very fast,
compared to these modern turbo nutters well it's 120 horsepower down, isn't it?
But it doesn't matter, as a driving experience this thing is superb.
Might need to have one of these in my old shed.
Very, very enjoyable. What an engine.
Nearly 8000 rpm, reliably so.
And of course you have to take it out to eight,
so that when you change gear you drop back into the VTEC.
You don't want to drop out of the VTEC.
It is to car driving, what riding a two-stroke motorcycle is to motorcycles.
You know, you've just got to stay on it to enjoy it.
When you're out of the VTEC,
the personality change of the car is remarkable.
You just think, "Well, I'm in a quite a slow, rather gutless noisy hot hatch,
that doesn't appear to have any ride comfort."
But the moment you get up, bang, what a thing.
Driving position is way too high.
Steering can't be adjusted for reach,
It's just on a sort of a rake adjustment, which is fairly hopeless.
You do feel that you're sitting in a kind of Renault Scenic,
but otherwise... God.
I don't know whether this serves to remind us how great Honda was,
or how ropey it might have become.
Anyhow, I'm told reliably that this new Civic Type-R
is back in the great game.
So let's jump in that and see if we can find any common DNA.
and to discover whether Honda has, yeah, rediscovered it's better days.
So the new Civic Type-R does have an independent rear end.
Hold on, I'm just going to do something bit naughty.
I'm taking my hands off the wheel and clap,
Well done, Honda, because you're back to your best in that respect,
This car feels very sophisticated.
It feels like it can handle all the power,
but, my oh my, am i finding this thing complicated and conflicting as well.
There's so much that's right about this car
but essentially it feels as if they had just made a couple of extra tweaks
or some slightly different decisions, they would have absolutely nailed it.
As it is, I think it probably is filed under the flawed genius section.
Let's start with the engine, only 10 horsepower up on the old version,
but a mega engine because it's turbo charged
but also has the variable valve timing.
So it wants to rev. Torque down low, power up high.
It's fantastic, doesn't sound that great, and with the third exit on the tailpipe,
I thought we'd get a load more whooshing and wheeshing and popping.
There isn't really much.
The steering. Well, obviously there's three different settings here.
There's a normal setting called Comfort, then there's Sport. Then there's Race.
In Comfort, it's light, it's electric.
Obviously, like everything else these days.
In Sport, gets heavy and in Race, gets heavier still.
But off-centre in Comfort mode, it is quite indistinct.
You don't quite know where you are actually,
so you want Sport mode, to have a sense of where you are on the road.
It gets very complicated at this point,
because the DNA button for want of a better phrase,
the switch here that gives you Comfort, Sport and Race,
doesn't allow you to select which one of the options you want per area.
So, you can't have light steering, heavy dampers or stiff dampers,
and then an aggressive powertrain.
You have to stay within their parameters.
I think that's a huge mistake, to me I want my suspension in Comfort,
I want my steering in Sport, I want my engine gearbox in Race
But I can't do that.
So, I'm either stuck in Comfort,
which is actually as I drive because I want the suspension supple.
but then I have steering that's just a bit too light and indistinct.
And the engine just feels a little bit flat.
I don't know why they don't have the ability to choose your own button,
like the Germans call it 'individual', don't they where you get your own choices.
It's a real shame I think.
If you want to feel the DNA link
between this car and the EP3, it's the gear shift.
In terms of the shift quality, short precise just feels right
and then the clutch is just bang on, as well.
The moment you get in the car you shift cleanly,
you feel like a good driver.
Because it's just so well matched.
So not being able to separate out
the choice of steering weight, of suspension stiffness
and throttle aggressiveness let's say,
I think it's massive mistake
because it means you're stuck in a particular personality of car.
But having said that the suspension in Comfort mode is fantastic for UK roads.
It just feels so plush.
And, I can't believe I'm saying this, it doesn't need to be four-wheel drive.
It has so much traction.
245 section contis all-round, that you never even think about traction.
And the diff, that locking differential is so clever.
I've got no wheel fight, torquester, you might call it,
it just stays in the middle of the road,
even on quite heavily crowned stuff.
It doesn't sniff out those cambers and throw you across the road.
It's just really, really impressive.
But here's the thing, well, two things really,
number one, I think this car looks absurd.
I know it's not my job to tell you how things look,
but to me this thing does look faintly ridiculous.
It looks like it appeals to young people lacking taste,
but it's got a sticker price of well north of thirty thousand pounds,
that is clearly unattainable.
So, what's it doing? Who's it aimed at?
Because the type of person that can afford 35 grand on a hot hatch,
I don't think, wants to be seen in something quite as lairy as this.
The other aspect is the dynamics.
I think, everything that this car does,
it probably does slightly better than a Golf R.
It's more sophisticated in terms of suspension,
The engine is better, the gearbox is better.
This is a boosty engine, so 3,000 rpm.
Push the throttle, pulls immediately and then just keeps going all the way.
To what? 7000 rpm.
I think it's the best engine in a hot hatchback.
I love the chassis playfulness with it, as well.
I know we're on the public highway,
but if you want to make this thing move around, you really can.
But, that engine...
But, how does it get all the power onto the road? Bumpy road this.
No torque fight.
Yeah, the art of front-wheel-drive
has become really clever hasn't it?
One wonders whether the Focus RS actually needs to be four-wheel drive
because I think this car is more fun and it's two-wheel-drive.
But is its dynamic advantage over a goal far enough
to overcome this cabin, which I'll come to in a second,
and those exterior looks, I don't think so.
I think it just is too much of an eyeful.
And the cabin? Blimey.
Well, first of all, the seat is superb and it's set low. Well done, Honda
The rest of this stuff, I have to say, is baffling.
To start with, very little can be done on the fly.
You can't hook your phone up on the fly.
You can't engage or disengage the auto blipper,
which is very good for the manual gearbox.
Everything has to be done when you stop. baffling.
This screen here, I've had a 5-10 minute play don't really know where I'm at.
It is illogical at best, but I'm sure if you live with it you'll get used to it.
I have to give them that space.
I do like the boost gauge on the big central readout as well.
But all in all, this is an eyeful in here.
It's like the exterior of the car to me
is aimed at someone between the age of 18 and 24.
I know the Instagram generation is well heeled these days
but I don't know how many of them can afford to buy one of these things.
I have to applaud Honda for getting back in the hot hatch game in a fearless way.
This is a top car and if you like your hot hatches to drive,
well, this has got to be right up there on the list.
But I will say, it's a big car.
Hot hatches have become very, very big.
This thing could easily be an Accord