what is the kind of the the impetus have
been vegetarian rather than vegan ooh
interesting so actually recently I've
stopped I haven't I don't eat eggs and
I've like I'm also lactose intolerant I
basically don't drink milk I do ya know
I think I think what I'm I think I think
through the impetus for me at least for
I mean X was easy an easier decision for
me but I think the emphasis for me for
being vegetarian is like what would I be
able to do to like if I was to if I had
to make my own food everyday would I be
able to do it and obviously with like
plants seems pretty
I have no like moral you know I don't
have a problem with that now the product
itself when it comes to like milk I
don't think I have a problem with my
ancestors like lives in India and they
like a lot of them even own cows like
now right and so like I can imagine
relationships with cows that are like
productive and like you know can be
mutualistic in my opinion you know where
like you have a cow you give it the
proper love that it deserves and and
maybe I mean I think perhaps I hadn't
done so much thinking until recently
about how the industry has been really
exploited in you know in in the products
that I buy but you know at home with the
milk that we drink is like farm is like
from the local farm and you know we've
like visited and it seems like that's
that's a place that you know we like
trust and and and and and so going back
to what I was saying like I can imagine
myself being that farmer and like
treating the animal that way and so yeah
just to interject quickly do you think
that drinking cow's milk is natural for
humans do you think that's what the
milks there for well ok so I think
that's that's maybe not I don't know I'm
not sure that I like
why does not hot produce milk well okay
I mean it produces milk because like it
produces milk for its sports child right
um but I think I don't not sure that
that's especially relevant because you
might say that like why do we like grow
grass while we grow gap grass for the
cow or we do we grow it for ourselves
and mentioned the word dignity earlier
and do you think that the way that we
can supply animals removes them of that
dignity and I guess autonomy as well
that they deserve yes it completely does
yeah yeah it's it's very recent for me
so mainly like those way things have
been going for me is I've been like
cooking all of my meals you know begin
at home and sometimes that's that's
harder you know when I'm out with
friends and that sort of thing but I'm
you know improving as much as I can and
so one of the final questions will be
well what do you think is high value say
taste or life definitely life yeah and
would you yourself say that when you
when you buy these products you are you
sometimes don't have an awareness of of
what happens to the animals and so you
can I do so ever it's not like an east
conscience or because it's not in your
you know your kind of consciousness is
something you just buy without really
considering yeah that's that's very
valid and I'm really interested to know
as well because we would you mentioned
that the clothing aspect of it and kind
of goose it's almost infamous for like
the fur trim and stuff and so I was
wondering when you bought the jacket
were you aware of of it being like a
real fur trim so actually I didn't buy
the buy the jacket I at least to my
knowledge haven't ever purchased
something this kind of blatantly I used
the animals as blatantly so this was a
gift and I was not aware at the time
and of course after the fact that some
research and I actually usually don't
have the fur collar on because of that
um it's something you think about
there's only that I think about often
yeah and I've had conversations about it
it's not something that I shy away from
but yeah does it make you feel
uncomfortable thinking about it in the
same way that that foie gras made you
uncomfortable and just talked to you
from buying it yeah it's for some reason
no and I'm not I'm not sure why that is
I also grew up hunting and so I know the
first coyote and I know that coyotes are
kind of pests of nature in some ways
depending on how you think of it and
that they kill other wildlife that for
whatever reason we deem more worthy of
life perhaps that's interesting so I
don't wanna keep much longer but you
hear that that what you drew on that was
quite interesting it was almost like her
and it was like we draw distinctions
between said species of animals right do
you think those distinctions are
somewhat arbitrary I think probably in
the grand scheme of things yeah yeah
it's interesting that we do but I think
they are somewhat arbitrary do you think
you could kill the animal an animal
yourself personally and if we couldn't
do ourselves then why is it acceptable
to pay for someone else to do on our
behalf do you think that behavioral
traits that from our ancestors should
set a moral precedent for what we do
today interesting no I don't think
that's true but I also don't think that
it's I don't think it's fair to suggest
necessarily that simply because of the I
don't think that a concept of what
something was naturally made for is is
all that relevant right because you
might say that the leaves of his
ministry are really not made to be like
eaten right the leaves are supposed to
be for photosynthesis so maybe we
shouldn't have spinach or you know that
these rocks weren't made I mean I know
I'm not sure that we can I guess what
it's naturally isn't always what is
relevant but when when when a behavior
that causes has a victim involved the
issue of weather and other exploitation
is justified should be questioned and I
think the for me the reason asking that
question is not to it's not to maybe ask
whether it be naturally cause be moral
or immoral but is more to draw the the
line of saying well just because we've
always done something doesn't mean it
should be set as a standard
for a contemporary society fair enough
no I don't think that's what I'm arguing
at all I do think we need to be very
deliberate about the decisions that we
make but I'm not sure that like
considering the considering the lack of
information that we haven't sent in the
sense that like you know we don't really
know what it we don't know they we
didn't understand consciousness well
enough I don't think we understand
animal psychology well enough to suggest
necessarily that that that you know and
and in the way that I see it like the
relationships that that my ancestors
have with their their animals is not
like it's not demeaning I don't think
and I mean and and going back to the
moral issue that we were talking about
before
in what sense is it diminutive to
animals to treat them in this way i
don't know i mean i i'm actually very
uncomfortable saying that that's what
that relationship looks like and maybe
it's it's it's it's a it's a reimagine
ation then of what it means to to relate
with the animal world in that way and
and what it means to relate with nature
but do you think how we use i guess
before ancestrally when it was a
necessity was somewhat more symbiotic
but in a modern society where it's not a
necessity and because it's
industrialized at such a scale than that
that kind of natural hump or that a
natural harmony with with the world is
somewhat no longer there and so
interesting i think yeah i think maybe
that's something that we should be more
deliberate about but I think the
movements that we are seeing two words
more these sorts of more productive
relationships whether I mean obviously
these are small steps but like you know
cage-free farming and and and those
kinds of things like you know obviously
I don't think we we are necessarily
making I don't know that we're like
coming to better terms with what Morley
is right or wrong because I don't know
to be honest I feel like on this issue
there's there's a lot of ambiguity in
terms of what what we decide for for our
relationship with the animal world and I
think people I think I think my my final
point I do have to run it's not my final
point that people just have to be
comfortable with I think I think maybe
the the paradigm of like anything that
you do anything that you eat like you
should feel comfortable doing to the
animal
produced it or anything that you you
know anything that you in general like
whether it's the tree or whatnot like if
you feel like you would actually feel
bad cutting down a tree then you should
not you know use products that that that
perm that would promote that sort of
behavior and so maybe maybe that that's
the ownership and the the responsibility
that we should see is that you know try
to try to try to view that when you're
not so I guess this the final part makes
I really understand you need to go is is
we use that word relationship and use
use that a few times but animal
relationship but a relationship
it contains two or several parties but
both parties are a consensual and
mutually agreeing in that relationship
but the animals that we exploit are not
agreeing to be used and that this
centaur green to be taken to slaughter
houses and even in the case of dairy and
egg laying hens they're all still taken
to that slaughterhouse and so the final
point I'd leave you on is if if you're
vegetarian for maybe moral
considerations then to be I guess to be
consistent dairy and eggs still fit into
that moral consideration of animals or
builder yeah the final question I'll ask
you that is what do you think is higher
value taste or life
taste or life yeah I would say I'd say
outside life is more it's more valuable
yeah well thank you so much I really
appreciate that husband back to you yeah
it really enjoyed them so what do you
think as high-value taste or life
definitely but you know somewhat
juxtaposes our actions though when we
when we buy the product and in doing so
take the life
yeah yeah just yeah I won't keep for
anyone I appreciate have a nice day
thank you so much hope you find
interesting it's not provoking at least
right a bit of research and see what you
come up with thank you do you think that
being ism is something that people
should be considering on unlike an
ethical level absolutely yeah and I mean
III think that something that is
important too that I've found is
important to point out to a lot of
people and this was part of a
conversation that I had with my mother
after which she also like considered you
know veganism and has like transition
more towards it is that it you know if
if the the if the sort of moral
consideration of treatment of animals
you know maybe doesn't appeal to
somebody there's also the fact that you
know workers in like in animal
agriculture are heavily exploited they
work under terrible conditions so in
essence what is the conclusion could be
made that if we even if we value humans
with animal consideration and not
non-human animals we would still be
logically morally obliged to be vegan
purely because of the human exploitation
that occurs as well absolutely and I
think that's a really valid point yeah
thank you so much for the conversation
yeah I really appreciate
you