Please welcome Ohio governor John Kasich.
(applause and cheering)
Welcome to the show.
Before we get into the interview,
there are a lot of people who know you
from the campaign trail and from Ohio.
But I think a lot of people want questions answered,
and especially about this.
(camera shutters clicking, crowd chatter)
MAN: Bon appétit.
-(laughter) -John Kasich, were you using the presidency as
-a ruse to get free food? -(laughter)
You know, my wife said that if you ever eat again
in front of a camera, you're not sleeping at home.
-(laughter) -And so... and my wife is beautiful,
so I gave up eating altogether, but, uh...
-Oh, that's nice. That's nice. -But you know what? It was...
Coming here... Is the food not the best in New York?
-I mean, it's just fantastic, you know. -(applause, cheering)
Nicely played. Nicely played.
And, uh, you know, it was a great time.
By the way, you know I won Manhattan,
so, uh, I'm kind of the president of Manhattan.
-(laughter) -I don't really know how I did in Trump Tower,
but I think I did pretty well.
I think you did because Melania is the only person there,
and she probably voted for you, as well, so, yeah.
-(applause) -Um, let's, uh... let's talk about...
Let's talk about you, and let's get into the presidency.
You are the governor of Ohio.
There's the saying-- "As Ohio goes, so goes the election."
Your constituents didn't support Trump in the primaries,
and they did support Donald Trump in the election.
Looking at what Donald Trump has done now
five days away from 100 days in the presidency,
in touch with your people on the ground,
how are they reacting to Donald Trump's presidency?
I think people that voted for him are still hanging in there.
I think very few of the people who voted for him have said,
-you know, they don't like him. -Yeah.
And this is part of the problem.
It's almost like rooting for a sports team.
You know, you wear your uniform,
and you're always for your team regardless.
And I think, over time, if the jobs don't come back,
that'll begin to change.
But this is part of the problem we have in the country.
Everybody's sort of dividing themselves.
Okay, so, if you're a liberal, you read liberal editorials,
-you watch liberal television. -Right.
You, you know, go to the
If you're a conservative,
you know, you do conservative television.
You do Rush Limbaugh and conservative editorials.
So people are all locked in these silos.
And we only consume what we want.
Frankly, we're all affected by it.
Think about Facebook.
You know, put something up there I don't like, I unfriend you.
I mean, we're to the point
-where people are not listening to each other... -But now...
And being able to, you know, hear what you have to say,
show you a little respect and, uh... but...
But now, couldn't some people argue, though,
that politicians have played a big role in that?
I love what you talk about in the book.
Two paths in America-- divided or united.
But many people would argue...
-I remember when I first watched debates. -Yeah.
-It seemed like you hate each other. -Is that what those were?
-Yeah. -Is that what those were? Yeah.
I-I didn't know what... I stood on the end of the stage.
It was like in a... it was like going
to the Olympics in swimming. I was way out here.
You were in lane eight-- is that what you were?
And I was watching it. And I was watching this stuff.
And I was like, "You've got to be kidding me."
But it seemed like everyone there was opposed.
It seemed like everyone didn't agree, everyone was hyperbolic.
If he's president it's the end, if she's president it's the end.
Don't you think that there is a large role
that politicians played?
Oh, no, no, no. There's no question.
I mean, the politicians now
are not providing the kind of leadership we'd like to see.
Right now, you know, if you compromise,
if you work with the other party, in either party--
this is true for either of them--
-that somehow you're a sellout. -Yeah.
And I was in Congress when we reformed welfare,
when we balanced the budget.
I negotiated with the Clinton people, we got the deal done.
We actually balanced the budget, we paid down debt,
so these people weren't locked in
-for the rest of their lives and paying all that. -Right.
But if you don't work together
and have some degree of bipartisanship,
nothing is sustainable.
But look, it's with everything we see today.
I wrote this book, not because I want some political platform.
I wrote this book because it's not just politics
that's letting us down.
Try flying United.
-(laughter) -Okay? Um...
(applause and cheering)
-Wow. -No. I mean, think about this.
So, that tells you how bad it is for you now.
We've gotten to the point where politicians are like,
-"But what about United?" Yeah? -Yes, but listen.
It's throughout our... it's throughout our culture now.
We have become so self-absorbed,
and we're not willing to put our hearts with others.
And we have to get this back, Trevor, and...
But would you not argue that it has gone the other way, though?
Would you not argue that United is an example
-of what you're talking about in the book? -It is.
It's America going, "We are united,
"because we saw what happened, we don't stand with it,
we put pressure on United as people."
-That's a good thing. -I think that that's...
I think one of the things that I like
-is the activism we're seeing. -Yes.
Now, a lot of Republican congressmen
don't like that activism, but, I mean, the fact is,
when people start to rise up...
You had the science thing, you had the Women's March.
I mean, it's good stuff, and what I liked about...
Look, the problem with the United thing is,
everybody in this studio has been on an airplane,
and we are starting to get the sense that we don't matter.
That something's bigger than us, and we don't matter.
I got news for you.
We matter just as much as the C.E.O.,
or the president of the United States.
It doesn't matter whether you're running the company,
-or turning off the lights. -Wow. -(applause and cheering)
-Now... -I like that. We all matter.
-Black lives matter. I like that. -No. Hey, Trevor...
-Trevor? Trevor? -You heard it here first, folks.
-But before you go on that... -Okay.
I just wanted to stop you in what you said
with the Republicans, 'cause in your book...
This is what I truly love,
and you wrote it on the back of the book, as well.
But you talk about, "There is one choice--
"the path that exploits anger, encourages resentment,
turns fear into hatred and divides people."
You cannot deny that that is what Donald Trump ran on.
You cannot deny that Donald Trump continues to fuel
his-his power with that.
When you are looking at Donald Trump
and you are looking at the Republican Party as a whole,
isn't there a part of you that goes,
"This is no longer my party"?
Because as John Kasich, you haven't endorsed Donald Trump.
You didn't vote for Donald Trump.
You were one of the few Republicans who hasn't buckled
-and kissed the ring. -I didn't go to the convention
-You didn't. I know. -in my own state.
That was a lot of fun. People really liked me for that.
'Cause you had to leave. That makes it even harder.
Look, I have a right to define what it means
-to be a conservative and a Republican. -Right.
The same way I have a right to define what it means
to be a man of faith.
I mean, I can do that, I have a right to do that.
And so, look, I think with... with Donald Trump,
he was a populist, I'm a populist;
he was a negative populist, I'm a positive populist.
People are hurting.
People losing their jobs, their kids can't get work,
uh, they're underpaid.
And so that's real-- so you have two ways of looking at it.
You take somebody like that, and you say,
"Well, it's somebody else's fault,
and somebody else ripped you off,"
and you drive that anger, or you can look at them and say,
"This is a terrible thing, but let's work it out,
-let's figure it out." -Right.
We live in a society today
where you want a bumper sticker solution or you take a pill
and everything's gonna be great, immediate.
We... This-this problem in this country
of growing divisions has been going on for decades-- decades--
and we're not gonna pull out of this, Trevor, overnight.
It's going to take us-- so let me give you and example.
Why don't we start mentoring kids?
Why don't we, as Republican or Democrat,
start giving our kids encouragement?
Why don't we fight the drug battle
and warn people about the dangers of drugs, together?
-Uh-huh. -Why don't we... you know,
why don't we help veterans get jobs when they get home?
Why aren't we looking out for them?
You see, getting together...
-(applause) -Let me... let me finish this thought.
Getting together with common humanity
can allow us to begin to talk to one another again.
-Right. -Because right now, you can't even...
Lady moved her wedding out of America
'cause if she invited her family there'd have been a fistfight.
See, she had her wedding out of the country.
You know in your own families that there are...
there are fights going on.
And these things are not that critical.
What's critical is what's happening in your family
and what's happening next-door.
And just like the United passengers
drove the change... change up, we need to drive the change up
to solve problems in this country
-and recapture our culture. -It's interesting,
because you-you say in the book...
-(applause) -you say in the book...
that... many people in America argue that there is
a lack of leadership, there is a crisis of leadership,
and one of the lines that struck me in the book
is, you say... you would argue that there is also a crisis
-of "follow-ship." -Yeah.
-What does that mean? -Well, that means
that if you are in any organization--
and the folks here tonight work in different places--
you look at your leader and you say,
is the leader taking us to the right place?
And if the vision is right, we follow.
And then leaders emerge among the followers.
If all of a sudden the leader's taking us off a cliff,
you can't keep following the leader.
And you have to have disrupters in any organization
that can tell the big cheese, like, "Trevor,
"that was not a very funny joke.
Stay away from that, okay?"
And as long as they're for you, than you have to accept it.
-Right. -So it's not just...
We need better leaders-- without shepherds it doesn't work--
but even with shepherds, you have to have people
that'll... that'll... that'll get behind the leader
and guide that organization and not just blindly.
Let me ask you a question that I've always wanted to know.
During the race-- during the campaign, in fact--
I think it was Donald Trump Jr., he gave your office a call,
and he said, "Will John Kasich run with Donald Trump?
"And in exchange, he will run the government
and the military and all structures, basically"--
I mean, I paraphrased this, but, "He will run everything."
And I think your office replied,
"Well, then what will the president do?"
And they said, "Well, he'll make America great again."
-(laughter) -I honestly wonder,
looking at what's happening now...
if you could go back, would you take that deal?
No, no, no, no. I didn't... Look, the reason...
Some people think that I didn't endorse Trump
or go to the convention 'cause I was bitter.
No. I had a message that meant a lot to me.
People need to live a life a little bigger than themselves,
that we all have to help one another.
And people think that if you're in politics you say things
and it's all transactional-- that's baloney.
-The things I say... -See, the food.
The food coming back again.
-There you go. -The food. But carry on.
But, look... look,
what I'm saying to you is, we...
-How can I...? That's too good. That's good, Trevor. -(laughter)
-That's good. Okay? -(applause, cheering)
No, but I-I hear what you're saying.
You're saying... you're saying--
and forgive me for cutting you off there--
-Yeah. -but I hear what you are saying.
That's why I couldn't do it. No, I'm not going back,
and I couldn't do that and I feel great
and I'm happy-- look, everything is good.
Now, I want to say one other thing,
'cause I watched a little bit of the last segment.
'Cause I do want to talk just for a second
about... about faith.
And I'll tell you why I say it.
I think sometimes people in religion
have given religion a bad... a bad, uh, reputation.
Let me tell you what it is for me.
Religion is: honor... honor God,
because... and that gives me humility;
and secondly, love my neighbor, connect me with my community,
put me in somebody else's shoes, learn to help somebody get up,
and live a life bigger than myself.
-That to me is what religion is about. -Right.
Right, right.
And if you're, you know, and if you're a humanist
and you want to change the world, I'm all for you.
But, you know, let's not throw out the fact that values matter,
and that we, we will,
we have a responsibility for what we have been given.
And that gets back to the issue
of no one's better than anybody else.
Because I believe in the eyes of the big guy, we're all equal.
And we all have talents and we need to use it
to change and heal this world.
That's what this book is all about for me.
That's what comes across in the book.
And I agree with you in many points.
I mean, you're right, there are some people
who make religion look bad.
That is what Muslims are struggling from
all over the world.
When you talk about these issues in your book,
let's talk a little bit about policy before I let you go,
-Yeah, sure. -because...
That's one thing about you.
People may not agree with all of your politics.
There are things where people don't agree on everything.
But one thing I remember consistently was,
if you asked a Democrat or a Republican,
toward the end of the race,
all right, Democrats you can't get Hillary.
Republicans you can't get Trump,
but everyone can get Kasich.
A lot of people would have said "yes."
And they said you balanced budgets,
you went into a surplus,
you increased the jobs in Ohio.
People-- I've been in your state-- people love you.
Well, and Trevor, the other thing we've done is,
I've not tried to leave anybody behind, the mentally ill,
the drug addicted, the chronically ill...
Everybody has to have a sense in a country
-that they have a chance. -Right.
And that the people who are running the place
are aware of them.
And so we've-- you know,
even on police and community relations,
I have an African American liberal Democrat
who is working with a former head of the highway patrol.
And we now have standards that we have never had before.
There is nothing like it in the country.
Dig into a problem,
don't care about whether you're a Republican or Democrat,
lift the people and look,
I'm not-- I ain't that great a guy.
I just do the best I can, Trevor.
Wake up the next day and do a little bit better.
But, you know, we're all basically failed.
-And that's the great thing-- -(audience exclaiming)
-We are. -(applause)
-Well, I mean... -You're not, Trevor.
-I'm not, I host
But, uh... No, no, I hear what you're saying.
-I know what you're saying. -No. And I saw your demos,
so I know you're doing really, really well, I mean...
No, but, uh, but going to that, you have all of this.
Let's talk about what changes you would implement.
A lot of people would not realize that as much
as you are a Republican, you're one of the people
-who lead the expansion of Medicaid -Sure, yeah.
-in your state. -Yes.
You were not for the replacing
and repealing of Obamacare the way it is.
-You agree that it's-it's broken. -We all, we all do...
It needs to be fixed in many ways.
We're not gonna-- we cannot willy-nilly, just pass some,
some proposal that's gonna cut off coverage
for the mentally ill and the drug addicted.
They got to go to the doctor all the time to get better.
And some of them have to go for a long time.
And we're gonna pass some bill out of Washington
that doesn't take into account those lives?
That's nonsense.
And I'm gonna speak out if I can and have a voice.
-You also speak out against gerrymandering. -Well, yes.
This is something I wanted to find out from you.
You think they know what that is? Gerrymandering.
Oh, this is
-Yeah. -Don't mess with them.
-Don't mess with these people. -(applause)
Don't mess with everyone watching the show,
everyone here.
So one of the biggest issues that America is dealing with now
is that a lot of politicians are choosing their constituents,
and so they no longer have to serve in the same way
that a public servant has always had to.
And so, Ohio, you guys are getting to a place
where you have to make a decision,
I think it's in November, you'll correct me if I'm wrong.
But now you're going to choose between having
an independent commission, bipartisan that gerrymanders,
or that really draws the district lines,
or the other option is to go with a two-thirds majority
of politicians who decide this.
Which side are you falling on?
I'm for whatever side is gonna carve out fairer districts.
I don't care what it is, I don't care who it benefits.
But you, but you, you-- I mean, it-it would be...
-I demanded that we have... -Surely, it would seem
that the politicians are not the people to choose
who should vote for the politicians.
Well, no, I agree with that, Trevor,
but you have to operate within the system.
And now the people I work with there
are saying you're right on this gerrymandering.
-See? 'Cause here's what happens. -Yes.
You carve a Republican district, a Democrat can't win,
you carve a Democratic district, a Republican can't win.
-So what happens, -Yes.
if you're a Republican, you have to fear the right,
if you're a Democrat, you fear the left.
So we become farther and farther apart.
It is a disaster.
And so there is-- and then if you compromise, by the way,
then you're called a traitor.
And, you know, today a lot of people gave up bowling,
and took up watching politics.
They ought to go back to bowling.
We'd have a little bit smoother situation.
That's a big problem.
The other big problem is for president,
a handful of billionaires can pick a president.
-And that's just dead wrong. -Right.
And it's a Supreme Court ruling, and I'm against it.
(applause)
I honestly could not recommend to people more
that they read the book.
You are a rare breed of politician
who seems to stick to what he says.
It has been an honor having you on the show.
-Thank you for your book. - I enjoyed it.