- [Jon Nielson] Great.
So, we have the stereotypes of millennials, of course,
that we've all heard, which is, I'm 35 years old, and I'm actually
on the, I think, the older tip of what it means to be a millennial.
And yet, even I resonate sometimes with some of the negative stereotypes
that you get.
And, you know, laziness maybe is one stereotype, maybe a kind of sense
of overly optimistic view of the world, probably an inflated view.
Sometimes, we would accuse millennials of how they're going
to change the world.
And that can definitely creep into the church where I think the
older generations, and I'll even include myself in that, can develop a little bit
of a cynical view toward millennials.
I think we've seen that.
In fact, Cameron was saying, just a minute ago, he's even said some things in a
recorded way just poking fun at millennials in a fun way.
- [Cameron Cole] Whoops.
- [Jon Nielson] But we do want to also think about pushing back on those
stereotypes, and also thinking about what these people can add
to our church context so...
- [Cameron Cole] Right.
And I think millennials have been, in some ways, kind of like a punching bag
or a punchline for people.
Everyone likes to make fun of the snowflakes and all of that.
But, you know, they're made in the image of God. And I think a lot of the
frustrations that people have with millennials in some ways is because they
cut against and disrupt a lot of our cultural idols.
You know, so, for example, I think one thing I hear about millennials
quite a bit is that they're lazy, they don't have a work ethic,
they don't want to pay their dues, they want to rise to the top immediately.
And, you know, one thing I will say is that it does seem like a lot of
millennials, they have a little better work-life balance.
They may value family, and friendships, and community, and relationships more
than they value vocation.
And I think a lot of the time why they kind of rub people the wrong way is
because that undermines some of our cultural values.
I mean, I was raised in a traditional house where you said, "Yes,
sir," you said, "No, ma'am," you had to have a summer job.
And the family motto was, "While other people are sleeping,
we are working."
And so, you know, to see a generation of people who may not buy into that...
There was a workaholic kind of idolatry in the community I grew up in,
the culture I grew up in, and my family in particular.
And so, I think a lot of maybe the resentment or the backlash may,
at times, just be a reflection of our cultural idols related to work that
millennials don't necessarily worship, don't necessarily buy into.
- [Kori Porter] They're not necessarily lazy.
I think that they're just disenchanted with work in and of itself because it may
seem aimless or pointless.
And so, I think that they're trying to lead more with their hearts and actually
want to do something with purpose.
And so, they're jumping from job to job, they're looking for purpose, and they
don't find it.
But they are the least churched generation, and we know they don't have
the gospel that anchor them, to hold them fast to understanding what it looks like
to do work and do work well.
And so, I think laziness is more of a symptomatic sense of a sin struggle that
they have, not necessarily just a characteristic of the generation itself.
- [Cameron Cole] Yeah.
And sorry, back to the idolatry thing, I think a lot of times older
generations value security.
And, you know, something positive is that millennials,
they want to find fulfillment in their work.
They want it to be meaningful.
And they will take that over the financial security that sticking with the job
over a long period of time so...
- [Jon Nielson] And if we feel threatened by that, that attitude which we feel
like is an attack on our high value of hard work or workaholic nature,
I think it's fair to ask ourselves why exactly do we feel threatened by that, and
what cultural idols might we have been worshiping that the millennials are
beginning to challenge a little bit.
In terms of what Millennials bring to the local church, I do want to push back
on one stereotype a little bit, and that is that millennials don't want
to hear from the older generation or that, you know, they are pushing out people
who are older.
In my experience, and I'm speaking anecdotally here a little bit,
I have never met a young man or woman in their 20s who isn't interested,
when asked, in a mentoring relationship with an older believer.
I think we have sold them a little bit short in terms of their desire to learn
from the older generation.
We've assumed that a 25-year-old single woman, for example,
is not interested in meeting regularly with a 75-year-old saint.
- [Kori Porter] Yeah, that's good.
- [Jon Nielson] And in my experience, it's just not true.
I think the opportunities are not there, and I think we have an opportunity in the
local church for that Titus 2 kind of older women teaching the younger women
about the faith, older men mentoring younger men that I don't think we've
given millennials enough credit for actually desiring those kinds
of mentoring and discipleship.
- [Kori Porter] Jon, you're onto something.
When I was doing campus ministry and I was in a local church setting,
the thing that I had, the hardest thing of happening
in discipleship was getting the older woman to feel as though they had something
of value to give to the younger woman.
It wasn't that the younger women didn't want the mentorship themselves,
it was that the older generation felt as though they may not be equipped themselves
to be able to impart really any type of wisdom to the younger generation.
And so, I think the onus is not necessarily on the millennial
in that case, I think it is the older women of the church should be a little bit
more intentional about us taking hold of that Titus 2 charge that was given to us
to love women well through discipling them in the Word.
- [Cameron Cole] I think, you know, previous generations in the United States
identify themselves in terms of competency.
So if you're talking about a younger kid, you know, I'm a math student or I'm
a cheerleader, I'm a football player.
Millennials identify themselves in terms of connectedness and community.
And so, one thing that they bring to the church is a high value for community.
The churches in my community that are doing well with millennials are churches
that do community really, really well.
And so, in that sense, that's a positive aspect
of their ecclesiology.
They, a lot of times, see the church as a place where
they find community.
And that's something we can really embrace and learn from.
- [Jon Nielson] Yes.
I totally agree.
Yeah, I do think that connects to another point that I've made and thought
about sometimes about millennials is that they are the generation, in my experience,
that has the sharpest radar for detecting a lack of authenticity.
So, you know, if you want to turn off a 26-year-old young man from your church,
be fake and you'll do it.
And so, I do think what millennials can sometimes bring, and this happens
in community, it doesn't happen without community is encouraging our churches
to be authentic places, encouraging our churches to be places
where sin is confessed to God but also to each other, where there's real
conversation and acknowledgment of the ways that we struggle, but also, the ways
that God is helping shape us to be more like Christ.
So, a lot of times, if we've got that gap in our local churches where we don't have
anybody in their 20s or early 30s, we can descend into some of that lack
of authenticity, which is such a turnoff to young adults, I think.
- [Cameron Cole] Yeah.
In that way, they really, in some ways, hold us accountable.
Yeah.
I think one thing I would say that's valuable about millennials is
over the last 100 to 150 years in evangelical Christianity,
there's been a blind spot when it comes to taking care of the poor,
matters related to social justice and racial justice.
And, you know, millennials, they are not going to play ball with that.
The millennials, they want to see a holistic kind of ministry where we're not
just concerned about discipleship, but in addition to that,
we are being faithful to what the Scriptures have to say about taking care
of the poor and being advocates for justice.
And so, that's a real trend that you see that millennials in the
evangelical context, that something that they are really
calling for and demanding.
And it's an area where the church has needed to grow.
And that's something that they really bring to the table, a passion for that,
and a sense of accountability that we are faithful to all of what the Scriptures
have to say about those issues.
- [Kori Porter] Cameron, it seems like if we brought those
two together, if we brought the energy that the millennial brings,
the passion, the desire to seek justice, and we brought that under the authority,
like you said, of the local church who is not necessarily carrying that
out right now, it just seems like that we can see Christ to be more glorified when
it comes to issues of injustice in the world.
So it doesn't seem like, to your point, something that should be divorced
from each other, but it's something they should be married more together.
- [Cameron Cole] Absolutely.
And you see that millennials really do seem to have a vision for that,
that the two are married together like you said.
- [Jon Nielson] Yeah.
I'm curious, Kori, you know, so you're discipling a ton of women.
I saw you do it in person, you know, for a year when we worked
together at Princeton.
So you've got, I don't know, dozens of 20, 21, 22-year-old women that are
about to leave Princeton and go literally all over the country and all
over the world.
As you think about them going into local churches in New York City and Austin,
Texas, and who knows, other parts of the world,
what are you most excited about what they'll bring from their time
at Princeton, from walking with Jesus at Princeton University to their local church
context in the years to come?
- [Kori Porter] Yeah.
I don't know if you know, Cameron, but Jon was my boss at Princeton.
- [Cameron Cole] I knew that.
- [Kori Porter] And so, you also kind of saw this,
but Princeton or the Ivy Leagues in themselves are not necessarily
as hospitable to the gospel as other places.
And so, when a student has come to faith at an Ivy League institution,
they've come to faith because they truly do see Christ as their Lord and Savior.
So when they're going into the local church setting, I think that they bring a
sense of a more mature understanding of having weathered the storms of what it
means to actually have your faith to be your own, what it means to have some
slight persecution from their professors or from the social context around them.
So I think they're going in with a clear mind, sober-mindedness,
knowing what they're getting themselves into.
I think they also bring just a zealousness for the Word.
Like, when I sit with my girls in Bible course, the way that they just love God is
through, like, actually seeing him in the pages of Scripture.
I remember one time there was a girl, she was newer to the faith, and she was
reading through the gospels with me, and it was the first time
that Christ had spoke.
And she just started to tear up because it was the first time she has seen
Christ actually use words in the passage, and she was just overwhelmed with joy.
So I think a real heart for the gospel, a heart for the Word itself,
and also a conviction to live it out faithfully is something that they can help
the local church.
- [Jon Nielson] Yeah.
And I saw that too.
And I think the students at Princeton, in particular, who really walk with the Lord,
who really follow Scripture, who love Jesus, they understand what
that's going to mean from their peers.
I remember one student told me that for him to articulate what the Bible says
about sexuality would be, for him, social suicide.
I mean, I've never had to deal with that in the
context where I've generally lived and walked where for me to say, "No,
I think the Bible defines marriage as being between one man and one woman,"
would be social suicide, that would destroy what my peers would
think about me.
And some of those students coming out of context like that, whether it's at a
university, or a city setting, or a work setting, a work environment,
have had to deal with owning their faith in a way that is socially damaging.
That can be a great gift to what they bring to a local congregation in the
years to come.
Yeah.
- [Cameron Cole] I think one thing that I really embrace and am excited
about with millennials in the church is something that they're criticized for is
a lack of patience.
They have an expectation that, you know, they start a job and they should be
the CEO, you know, by week two.
But they have grown up in a whole different technological age than when I
was raised in or older generations.
And so, as a result of that, they do kind of have this
sense of immediacy.
A way that, that can be very positively directed is they bring a sense of urgency.
They want things to change, they want things to change now.
So in terms of how that relates to evangelism, or discipleship, or taking
care of matters related to social justice and the poor, there's an urgency and a
passion, "Things must happen right now" kind of attitude that older generations
may be too patient and may be too complacent of.
- [Jon Nielson] Yeah.
And that can be helpful even in the details of what's going on in a local
church where, a lot of times, it's a millennial member who's willing
to say, "Why do we do that?"
You know, "Why do we do that thing that way?"
And we, I mean, as leaders in the church, better be ready to say, "This is why.
This is why it's biblical.
This is why it's in line with our theological tradition," rather than,
"Well, that's just what we've always done here, and we're never going to change it."
And so, I do think there can be a helpful dynamic of immediacy,
like you said, and hey, let's be biblical, let's be Christ-centered,
and let's not put tradition ahead of what the Bible actually is teaching here.
- [Kori Porter] We call it, students have a apathetic
faith and think you're going to reach them in a local church.
Like, they demand, like you said, authenticity, but they also demand, like,
us to push forward and, like, be excited about the things that Lord is doing.
But then I think they also demand change, like you said, in the heart,
not just social change.
But if you are called to stop sinning, I've seen my students be very persistent
and very diligent in their sanctification.
And that's not always typically true with people who will get a little bit more lazy
in their faith.
So I've always enjoyed seeing them just really wanting to wrestle through things
in such a real deep way.