- Today's show is a very special conversation that we had
with former child actor Jennette McCurdy
who you know from hit Nickelodeon shows like iCarly
and Sam and Kat,
certainly shows I've watched with my daughter.
But this is about her best selling memoir.
It's called, I'm Glad My Mom Died,
which is a humorous, bold approach
about her complicated relationship with her mother.
We originally shot this interview as a YouTube exclusive,
but the response has been so incredible
that we decided to bring it to broadcast
and do the entire episode about it.
Now, Jennette's book has actually been
on the best seller list
at number one for eight weeks in a row.
So obviously our YouTube piece
is not the only thing resonating with people.
Her honesty, her bravery, her candor, but most importantly,
the lessons that she's earned
and learned are what is really resonating with people.
So please welcome a conversation
that has personally changed my life, Jennette McCurdy.
I was voracious and went after you
like a crazy person wanting to have a conversation with you
because of the things I went through
in my life and with my mom and growing up in this industry.
First of all, this cover, I love you so much, the humor.
How did you get to the humor of this?
Did you earn it?
Have you always had a sense of humor?
- Well, with the title specifically, I always knew
that I wanted it to be called, I'm Glad my Mom died.
I wanted something that would be really bold
and attention grabbing, and hopefully that people
with a sense of humor would get.
And also I think anybody
who's experienced parental abuse understands,
and I didn't feel so concerned with.
I knew there would be
some people who are like, I don't get that title
but I thought that'd be totally fine.
- And when people maybe don't get the comedy and the tone,
how do they behave and how does it make you feel?
- I try to stay off like Twitter, but every interview
that I've done so far, the interviewer's been sure
to let me know, hey, that title's very divisive.
And I think that anything worth saying
is probably gonna be divisive.
I think if it's not divisive,
there's probably no new conversation to be had there
so I felt it was an important and worthwhile title.
- Does someone have to die
in order to be able for us to tell our truths?
- I think we at least have to write
as if they have died, which is that old saying,
like write as if everyone you know is dead.
- [Drew] I've never heard that one before.
- I don't know who said it,
but I'm pretty sure it's like a...
I think it's a saying.
I don't think I just coined it.
- I've never heard it before.
I've definitely heard like write as if no one's reading it
or dance as if nobody's watching.
I mean, that's the new mug being sold on shelves.
I'm actually asking honestly,
do I have to wait to tell all my truths?
I don't know if I can do it
cause certain people are alive.
- My thought on that is I think
if saying the truth ends a relationship,
I think it's probably
a relationship that needed to end, I guess.
Does that make sense?
There was probably some painful,
uncomfortable truth that was just needing to be expressed
for a long time and if saying that out loud
is gonna end the relationship,
I think it's probably better off not being
in a person's life.
- How do you get over guilt and shame
if they're still alive in order to tell those truths?
- Oh my god.
Guilt and shame are tough.
I struggled to navigate guilt and shame for a long time.
I would get them confused, but I was told
by a therapist that I loved that guilt can sometimes
be worthwhile cause it can say, oh,
maybe there's a correction to be made
in like a life path or a lifestyle choice,
but that shame is not really worthwhile
that it kind of keeps you stuck and can like spiral.
So I would say the shame, the shame is
I just don't think it's a valuable emotion really.
But I do think with guilt, do you think it's warranted guilt
or do you think it's unwarranted?
- I think when it comes to our moms,
we want so badly to have this relationship
that I can't even say society says we're supposed to have.
It is nature, it is nurture, it's evolution.
- I just have to say that you're amazing.
I came in and I felt very sort of like
I've been doing a lot of press
and I was sort of in like press mode
and kind of like saying the thing
and then just you sharing that, thank you for sharing
and I felt like just a immediate connection
and like the press walls kind of dropped
and then it was just like a human moment.
- I love you so, so much.
I'm just as much here to ask advice.
I relate to your journey so much.
I feel like I have a lot to learn from you.
I really do, I'm so glad you said that
cause I don't think of this as the same thing.
I just was like, can I please talk with her,
one human being to another?
- Yes, that feeling is just wow.
- And also I knew I could trust you
because you did have comedy in there.
When it's all so dark and heavy, I'm like eh,
I don't want anything to do with you.
If you haven't found comedy as a coping mechanism,
we have nothing to talk about.
- If somebody says I feel like
I can't take somebody seriously
if they're too serious because I'm like where's the humor?
Like there are shades to reality.
It's never just dramatic, it's never just funny.
It's always layered and messy and gunky and that's juicy.
- I couldn't agree more cause as actors you're like,
put it all out there.
You think you're so out there.
But like that dark stuff that's in there,
it's real deep and buried.
So how did you start your therapy journey
and how did you start to unpack?
- Well, initially when I went to therapy,
I did have my mom still on the pedestal
and every time I felt defensive immediately
when my first therapist, Laura,
started asking questions about my mom.
Immediately I went into...
Well, she did this
but it's because she's such a good mom.
It's because she wanted me to be successful.
It's because she wanted me to have a better...
Like everything had...
I was so defensive,
I didn't even realize that I was at the time.
But in retrospect I see, oh,
I was disclaiming every single thing that my mom did.
Instead of just stating the reality or how I felt about it,
I was more concerned with how to keep my mom looking good
than I was with expressing my true emotional reality.
- [Drew] I think I'm having an aha moment.
- Tell me.
- Maybe it's protectiveness that I feel.
I've never put it in those terms in my head.
- I got chills.
- It's like I don't want to paint her negatively.
I don't want people to think of her negatively,
but the truth is tough stuff.
- Yeah, it took me a long time to accept
that my mom was not perfect, let alone abusive.
Like it went in baby steps to put these pieces
of the puzzle together and to recognize the reality
of the pain that I'd suppressed for decades at that point.
I first went to therapy when I was 22 or 23.
- What did your therapist do that made you feel
like you could keep going?