Yamiche: Good evening, and
welcome to "Washington week."
This week, former president
trump had to endure a number of
legal challenges.
On Wednesday, the New York
attorney general announced the
state is suing the former
president and his three eldest
children for fraud.
The civil lawsuit alleges trump
and senior management of the
trump organization fraudulently
inflated the value of his real
estate assets for financial
benefit.
The ag's office is requesting
that trump, don Jr., Eric, and
ivanka be barred from borrowing
money or conducting business in
the state.
They would also have to pay back
the money they allegedly
obtained illegally.
The investigation could lead to
criminal charges for the
president.
>> We believe the conduct
alleged in this action also
violates federal criminal law,
including issuing false
statements to financial
institutions and bank fraud.
And we are referring those
criminal violations that we have
uncovered to the United States
attorney for the southern
district of New York and the
internal revenue service.
Yamiche: In an interview with
Fox News, the former president
responded to the charges.
Pres. Trump: She campaigned on
it four years ago.
It was a vicious campaign.
She just talked about trump.
We are going to indict him.
We are going to get him.
This was just a continuation of
the witchhunt that began when I
came down the escalator at trump
tower.
Yamiche: Also on Wednesday, an
appeals court ruled the justice
department can resume reviewing
classified documents seized from
trump's mar-a-lago home.
This comes as the special master
appointed to review the files
has given trump until next
Friday to back up his claims
that he declassify the documents
and that the -- he declassified
the documents.
Join Amy, Peter baker, co-author
of the new book -- joining me,
Peter baker, co-author of a new
book, Hugo Lowell, Vivian
Salama, and in studio, just the
two of us, Nancy Cordes, the
chief white house correspondent
for pbs news -- CBS news.
Hugo, it's your first time on
"Washington week."
I'm going to start with you,
also because of your expertise.
When you look at the legal
problems former president trump
is facing just this week, what
are possibly the most serious
now and in the long term?
Hugo: The two potential charges
-- the charges that came up this
week are significant with the
New York state ag civil suit,
but also the doj's into his --
investigation into his
mishandling of classified
documents which were stashed
around mar-a-lago.
They are equally potent.
If you look at the state ag
suit, that would end the trump
organization in its current
form.
It would permanently barred from
and his adult children from --
bar trump and his adult children
from holding office in New York.
There is a referral to the
southern district of New York
for potential federal charges.
The fact that the doj has
regained access to those 100
documents marked classified in
the mar-a-lago investigation is
also significant, because that's
the primary evidence when they
are investigating the potential
willful retention of national
defense information and the
obstruction of justice charges
that are on trump's doorstep.
The combination of those two
were a double whammy for him
this week.
Yamiche: That is definitely a
double whammy.
Peter, congratulations on your
new book, with your wife, Susan.
In your book, you conclude that
trump, quote, "Emerged from
defeat, impeachment" as the
dominant force in the Republican
party.
How does it connect the legal
challenges that he's facing now
and the fact that he is accused
of fraud and of course allegedly
unfairly and illegally taking
classified documents to his
home?
Peter: It's rather extraordinary
that through all these troubles
he actually seems to be
perfectly healthy within the
Republican party.
He still has such a strong base
there.
What's really interesting and
the through-line of our book,
what we saw again and again was
a president who tried to bend
reality, to shape it to what he
wanted it to be.
This is the heart of what
Letitia James is accusing him of
in this lawsuit.
He makes up facts to suit
whatever his interests are at
the moment.
You think my apartment is only
10,000 square feet?
I'm telling you it's 30,000.
You think it's only worth X.
I'm going to tell you it's 10
times that.
He insists that the facts he put
in the public space are real and
that the people bend to his
desires.
We saw that from his presidency,
when he told us there were
larger crowd sizes at his
inauguration than ever in
history, which wasn't true, all
the way to the end, when he said
the election was stolen, which
also wasn't true.
There may be some fatigue factor
setting in.
It depends on where these
investigations go.
What he's done successfully, why
we call the book "The divider,"
he makes this about dividing the
country.
That's been his successful
approach for 5, 6 years.
Yamiche: I want to come back to
you, Hugo.
Peter is laying out the quirks
trump has.
If Letitia James is successful,
cannot he just move his
businesses to Florida?
How important is the criminal
referral, even if he can move
his businesses?
Hugo: He can try and move his
businesses.
What Letitia James was saying at
the press conference, his
business empire in New York
would be at an end.
He could still move his
businesses to Florida, but he
wouldn't be able to do any
business dealings in New York.
He couldn't get any commercial
real estate.
He couldn't get any sort of
loans.
But I think the fact that the
referral has been at the
southern district complicates
things, even if he wanted to
move to somewhere like Florida,
because then he answers to
federal charges if they decide
to investigate.
Bank fraud is the referral
that's been made to the southern
district of New York.
That's really serious.
That's a potential maximum
30-year jail sentence, if he's
convicted on something like
that.
The 11,000 to 30,000 square
feet, that gap in valuation,
either your apartment is 11,000
square feet or 30,000.
Using that to make
misrepresentations, that's as
clear-cut as it gets.
That is what's causing problems.
Yamiche: Talking about former
president trump, we have to talk
about his response.
He went on Fox News.
But he also went online and
wrote this about New York
attorney general Letitia James.
He said, "Another witchhunt by a
racist attorney general."
What do you make of trump's
response, given what we know
about who he is and how serious
these legal challenges are?
Nancy: Some of the claims are
laughable, the fact that he can
clean -- declassify documents
with his mind.
It's obviously not true.
It speaks, Democrats would say,
to the increasing desperation of
a man who is kind of running out
of excuses and certainly is
running right up against the
special master, who his team
asked for, who is asking very
basic questions.
Like, did you declassified these
documents -- declassify these
documents?
What process did you go through?
Is legal team is not providing
-- his legal team is not
providing answers.
This is against the reality of a
midterm election and a former
president who is becoming a
bigger issue in that midterm
election than a lot of
Republicans would've hoped.
Yes, he has a stalwart
supporters who will be with him
no matter what, but what is
happening for him, not just in
Florida, but now New York, all
the legal challenges he is
facing are propelling him into
the spotlight at a time when
Republicans would vastly prepare
-- prefer for the economy to be
the spotlight in the midterm
elections, particularly with
some of the big drops in the
stock market we saw this week.
Yamiche: Certainly.
Vivian, to get at the justice
department case you have been
covering closely, the justice
department won some big wins
this week.
You have them winning the
appeal.
You also have a lower court now
amending the appointment of a
special master, taking out the
classified documents.
What is the significance of
these developments, these legal
blows, as we put it, for former
president trump?
Vivian: They are very
significant.
The justice department can
continue its investigation
without having to worry about
someone who is not legitimately
qualified to be looking at such
highly classified documents.
Specifically the trump team
lawyers.
They were saying even some
officials at doj have not gotten
the proper classification that's
needed, the proper
classification they need to be
able to look at those documents.
It's a really intricate process
that obviously goes to the heart
of national security interests,
according to the department of
justice.
That's obviously a win for them.
More broadly, it's interesting
to see that the federal courts
are essentially going and saying
that this is a matter that
cannot continue as far as the
president going on and saying
that he has declassified
something at a whim.
Obviously, there are very
technical issues that the
president has been citing, as
far as his ability to
declassify, and this is
something the Biden
administration going to be
looking at in the coming months,
because presidents do have a lot
of discretion when it comes to
declassification.
The U.S. Court of appeals, the
11th circuit, said prove it.
You have to prove you did
something to declassify this.
You cannot just say you
declassified all of this.
All of this was brought on by
the former president himself.
None of these issues would have
come to light.
The doj would have prevented a
lot of these details from coming
to light and going into the
public had president trump not
actually gone after them and
sued following the search of
mar-a-lago.
Some of these details that we
now know are coming and being
exposed to the public only
because of that lawsuit and
because of the fact that there
was so much political tension
around this particular case.
Now it is litigated in public.
Nancy: I think it's really
important, in addition to what
Vivian is saying, to point out,
even if he were able to produce
some kind of proof that he had
declassified these documents,
doesn't put him outside the
realm of legal jeopardy, because
it still doesn't explain why he
had these documents that were
the property of the U.S.
Government, that both doj and
the national archives had asked
for for a year -- it doesn't
explain why they were sort of
inboxes, unsecured at
mar-a-lago, a place that a lot
of people have access to.
Yamiche: Peter, there's a lot of
discretion, as Vivian put it, in
terms of classification and what
the president can do, but you've
covered a number of
administrations.
Can presidents declassify
documents by thinking about
them?
Hugo: If the well-known mental
telepathy -- it's the well-known
mental telepathy exception.
Obviously not.
The president does have
executive power, but Nancy is
right.
In some ways, it's a red
herring.
Obviously, the classic nation
level is important -- the
classification level is
important.
It does not get him off the
hook.
He does not own these documents,
whether they are classified or
not.
He was not entitled to tell the
government that he didn't have
them.
Which is what he did.
His lawyers signed statements to
that effect.
That brings the issue of
obstruction to the court.
Which is not about
classification.
We ought not forget that.
Yamiche: This is moving quickly.
There are so many people who are
saying that trump was trying to
delay this process, and now
there is a special master who is
setting deadlines aggressively.
What do you make of the timeline
and also the idea that trump is
being asked to provide real
evidence to his claims?
Hugo: I mean, trump tried to get
a special master because he
thought it could slow down this
investigation.
If you talk to people close to
the former president, all of his
advisors and aides were quite
worried about how perilously
fast the criminal investigation
was moving.
Some of the lawyers were taken
by surprise when mar-a-lago got
searched.
They were searching for insight
into what doj had and where they
were going next.
That is what burst -- birthed
this special master request.
The fact of the matter is he
tried to delay it.
This 11th circuit ruling has
upended all of that.
He and his lawyers were hoping
that, if the 100 classified
documents remained into play
with the special master, then
that could take weeks to
resolve.
Lawyers need potential security
clearances.
There needs to be a way to
handle them.
They were hoping that could
remain for weeks, if not months.
The fact that the 11th circuit
has taken these out means the
extent of the delay that trump
has been able to get has
amounted to nothing more than 2
1/2 weeks.
Now doj can resume that
investigation, and that's
significant.
Two weeks is nothing.
I spoke to a couple of former
U.S. Attorneys.
They said the length of time
that it would take to screw up
an investigation of this nature
is months.
Two weeks is not going to cut
it.
He is now going to have to go
before the court and say whether
or not he actually declassified
them.
He didn't bring any evidence
that the FBI planted those
materials.
My understanding is he probably
can't.
Yamiche: It's a lot to watch.
We are going to be seen what
evidence, if any, they can bring