Ladies and gentlemen, Liz Garbus.
-Liz, welcome. -(cheering, applause)
-Thank you. -So, Liz...
So...
You saw that clip, in that clip
that was New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman.
-It was. -She's one of the people
-you focus on in this documentary. -Yes.
Why would you focus on
a third-rate reporter like Maggie Haberman?
(laughter)
Uh, Maggie is an extraordinary reporter and journalist.
She's kind of, you know, one of the backbones
of the White House team reporting on this president.
She's a very public face for The New York Times.
And she's also a mom, um,
and a person who works really, really hard,
and was a person who I think people could relate to.
Could rel-- Well, I can't relate to her.
I'm just like Donald Trump.
I've never heard of Maggie Haberman.
He doesn't talk to her, apparently.
-Never at all. -Never talked to her.
That was a setup phone call, I'm assuming.
Right, he's never met her.
So let's back up here.
You embedded with The New York Times.
Why would you want to follow the failing New York Times?
I thought it was a good time to kind of pull back the curtain
on how the sausage is made.
Um, how-- you know, it's incredible, you know.
If you work at The New York Times,
you're given so much information every single day.
You get tips.
If you put them out there, they would be salacious.
The process by which they confirm and vet their stories
and before they put them in the newspaper is pretty incredible,
so, um, I thought it was important to see that process.
Now, in watching this process, you're watching them struggle--
which is one of the moments that I like--
with how to cover the news as it was changing in the Trump era.
It was moving faster.
They were figuring out ways in which to change,
basically, fundamentally, how The New York Times works.
What was that like? What were you noticing?
The thing about the-- I mean,
the news cycle is relentless, right?
And the competition-- I mean, it seems to matter very,
very much to the people who work in The New York Times
that they beat the Washington Post all the time.
Um, and I mean, really, by minutes, you know?
If, like, you get your alert on your phone,
and it's The New York Times, and they've, like--
then The Washington Post one comes, like, two minutes later--
Imagine them all high-fiving each other.
And, to you, you're still getting the information.
You're all good, but it's very meaningful.
And, you know, I like that,
'cause it means they care about their work.
But, kind of the drive and the incessant pressure
to-to get out there, to be first,
but, also, to be right,
which is the most important thing of all.
But that has shifted even in the last year.
I mean, Trump has changed everything.
-OG Trump, way to go. -Yeah.
But... but they do feel this need
to-to get the news out within minutes
-as opposed to within 24 hours. -That's right.
Did you notice that changing the quality of the news?
I mean, it fundamentally has to.
Well, you know, what I think is ex--
I mean, look, everybody makes mistakes.
The New York Times makes mistakes, you know.
They generally own up to them.
-We call them out here all the time. -I know.
Some of them even aren't mistakes until we call them out.
That's right. You've discovered so many mistakes.
But in general, given the amount of news that they put out,
like, you know, thousands of stories every week,
they, basically, have been getting them right.
One of my favorite moments was when you got
to watch them downsize.
Oh. (laughs)
Okay, well, that wasn't exactly downsizing.
That was reorganizing.
I like to think of it as downsizing.
Okay, there you go. Okay, yeah.
Tell me something I already know.
Something you already know.
Well, one thing that I found was when these Times journalists,
when we'd go out in the world with them, you know,
and they'd walk into a place like CPAC--
your favorite place, the conserv...
-Oh, it's so warm and so fun. -Right, right.
Best style in the world.
So they love-- so you go to CPAC
and you're a New York Times journalist.
You introduce yourself as someone from The Times,
and people kind of react like... (inhales through teeth)
"we're gonna stay away.”
After five minutes of talking, they're like,
"Eh, you're fine. I like you.”
And there is that connection that happens when people realize
that those other people that they've demonized
are just human.
Could you think about that?
I think that is a, that is a good lesson.
So whatever you can do, stay away.
Okay. The Fourth Estate airs Sundays.
All four parts are available now on all Showtime platforms,
including On Demand and streaming.
Liz Garbus.
The fight continues.